Dr. Bennet Omalu

Center Stage interview transcript

Draft source-derived transcript. Transcription, speaker attribution and timestamps may contain errors. Interview statements reflect the speakers’ accounts and have not been independently medically verified. Times are relative to the verified full-interview master.

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A football legend dies.

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A forensic pathologist looks closer.

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Webster's case would carry today's guest into a national argument.

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Webster had played center for Pittsburgh.

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Bennett and his colleagues examined his brain, then

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published their findings in 2005.

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Their paper described chronic traumatic CTE in a former NFL player.

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What could repeated head injuries leave behind?

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The stakes reached beyond one player, understanding what repeated

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hits might leave behind long after a football career ended.

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Then Hollywood arrived.

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In Concussion, Will Smith played Bennett, bringing the case to movie screens.

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A man used to examining evidence became the story.

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The scientific argument continued.

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Omalu has challenged diagnostic guidelines, and other researchers

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have responded, so we return to the paper beside the microscope.

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What does the evidence show, and where does Omalu think it leads now?

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Dr.

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Omalu, welcome to Mornings in the Lab.

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John and Johnny, Mike Webster was one of football's toughest men.

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When his brain landed on Bennet Omalu's autopsy table, a pathology

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finding helped force professional football and society into a reckoning

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over repetitive head trauma.

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Hollywood turned that fight into Concussion.

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The science kept moving and the arguments did not stop.

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I know, John, you were as eager to have this conversation as I was.

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Let's welcome him in.

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His name is Dr.

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Bennet Omalu.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm glad to be here.

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We are really excited to have you here, very grateful to have you here.

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Bennet, I think you know my, my brother, John Anderson.

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Uh, John, uh, John, uh, is here with us as well.

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And, uh, Bennet, uh, John, let's get into it this morning.

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Where are you phoning- where- first of all, where are you joining us from?

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I'm in Sacramento, California.

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It's about, uh, 5:30 AM this morning.

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Oh, John- I, I'm, I'm on the West Coast too, brother.

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So I'm with the boys, yes.

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But get- getting up early, getting up before the sun's the way to live, I think.

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Yeah, John.

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So, Doctor, where do, where do…

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Man, there's so much we can pull back here.

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Uh, where do we start?

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Do we start with Mike Webster?

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Do we start with Chris Nowinski?

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Do we start with your own curiosity?

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Maybe we start with you.

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Like, before, you know, before you were Bennet Omalu, the CTE guy, so

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to speak, who were you before that?

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Well, you know, um, my story, I was born during the Nigerian Civil War.

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Um, I was born a refugee.

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For the first four years of my life we were refugees.

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I suffered malnutrition.

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I grew up eventually with a childhood, um, trauma, childhood depression.

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Ah.

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And like my therapist told me, it was actually my childhood depression that

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led me to Mike Webster, 'cause, um- Mm

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I empathized with him when I heard about him.

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I saw myself in Mike Webster.

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Um, I used education to help heal my trauma and depression.

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So I wa- I walked up to Mike Webster on the autopsy table that morning.

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I saw my humanity in him.

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We had a, a common humanity.

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And I said to Mike, I looked him in the face, I said, "Uh, all the things I'm

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hearing about you I don't think are true.

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But I promise you one thing, I shall use all my education to vindicate you

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and to bring peace to your family.

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I don't think you are what they are making you to be.

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This is not your fault."

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And I said to him, "But Mike, you need to help me.

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I don't know.

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Guide me to the truth."

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Um, which I, I think he did because I had no reason to save Mike Webster's brain.

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We knew why he died.

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He had a massive heart attack.

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His brain looked normal, but I still fixed his brain.

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As you saw in the movie, the, my technicians were asking me, yelling at

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me, "Why are you saving this brain?"

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They went to my boss, reported me.

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My boss, Dr.

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Weg, called me in the next morning, "Bennett, what do you think you're doing?"

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I said, "I don't know."

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So he said, "Okay, as long as you pay for the analysis by yourself,"

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he'll let me do the analysis.

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I said, "Sure, so I'll pay, I'll pay for it."

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Remember then I was struggling with depression.

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I had no social life, I had no girlfriend, I had nothing.

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So I was making good money.

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I had enough money to spend, to pay a lab to do analysis on Mike Webster's brain.

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So, um, something as negative as depression, there was some light to it.

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Not everything you're struggling with, it's, uh, you know,

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not everything has, um…

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Some things have some nuisance value.

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No matter how dark your life may be, be hopeful that some

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good will come out of it.

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And I think the good that came out of my personal struggles with

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long-term childhood depression was the vindication of, um, football

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players who've been suffering from this disease for a very long time.

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It had no name.

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One retired NFL player said, "For goodness sake, finally they

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have given this thing a name."

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So I think, um, it has helped so many people to understand what

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happened to their loved ones.

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In fact, Mike Webster's wife said to me, "Bennett, why did you come so late?

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If I had known that Mike was sick, I would not have left him.

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I would have been there to support him."

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Wow.

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But we did not know he was sick.

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We just thought he was being a, a nasty man.

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Yeah.

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Johnny?

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Yeah, no, I, I've watched the movie and, um, it was very intriguing,

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very eye-opening and, you know, it's, it's, this is like a whole new world

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of, you know, study of the brain, of discovering shit that we didn't

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know was here just decades back.

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So it's, I'm, I can only imagine where we're gonna go in the future

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with understanding all this as well.

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Well, thank God that is really only for-- because I like it so much.

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I have always said I'm not against football, but since we've identified

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the hazards of football, as a modern society, the first thing we do when

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we identify anything hazardous is to protect the most vulnerable of society.

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And it has always been my position, which was the position of the American

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Academy of Pediatrics since 1957, that children should not engage in

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high-impact, high-contact sports, that you stop becoming a child after age of 18.

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Your brain begins to develop until about 25.

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So now we now know that contact football causes brain damage.

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Once you've suffered a concussion, you've suffered brain damage, permanent

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And over the years, this accumulated.

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Children under the age of 18, I said in 1957, but they, they capped

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it at 14, should not engage in the high impact, high contact sports.

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The, the mo- the notorious six are football, ice hockey, mixed martial arts,

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wrestling, uh, uh, karate and, uh, boxing.

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That's it.

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I hope I…

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And rugby, rugby.

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There's rugby too.

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So, um, they should engage in the less contact, less impact.

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Even in 2011, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Canadian

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Society of Pediatrics stated that children and parents should…

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No, no, doctors and parents should begin to discourage children from

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engaging in contact sports whereby repeated blows are inherent to play.

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This is a scientific fact, and I understand when there are, there is a

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collision between science and culture, uh, that it could be, it could be aggressive.

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Yes.

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But I think as time goes on, we are becoming more intelligent as human beings.

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This is now the era of super intelligence.

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I don't think there is anything intelligent in having a child

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go out there, put on a helmet.

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By the way, the helmet doesn't protect your brain.

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It simply prevents you from dying suddenly on the field, from

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suffering a catastrophic injury.

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Does it prevent CTE?

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It doesn't.

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Um, so you go, you slam your head repeatedly.

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In one game of football, a child could receive at least 60 impacts to the head.

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So in all politeness, I've been saying this is the scientific truth.

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Um, let children engage in the less contact, less impact sports.

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And I'm glad to learn that the American, um, Configuration of Soccer limited

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heading of the ball in amateur sport.

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I think they now raise the age to 12.

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You can't head the ball till you're about 12.

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So, so let's start doing things that are super intelligent,

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consistent with the modern times.

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I'm not against football.

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It's a very entertaining sport.

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My son loves football.

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Um, but let's protect the children.

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Dr.

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E- Let me ask you, let me ask you a little more of a personal question, right?

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So myself, you know, I played football from the time I was

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10, uh, through high school.

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Then I played rugby through college.

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Then I, at that point, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of, of head trauma

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happening in my life again until Probably in, uh, after 25, we can say that.

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Uh, but then after 25, it, you know, I was, I was actually, uh, a

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pro wrestler, so I took some pretty good, pretty good shots to the floor.

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A couple…

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More than, more than a few times I was like, had an impact that was enough

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where I was briefly not here, right?

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So I guess my question is the fact that those…

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'Cause you were saying up to 25 is where it's, is where

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it's the most damaging, right?

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So the fact that some of my worst, I guess you'd call it head trauma, came after 25.

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Is, does that make a, a really big difference, or is

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it just kind of semantics?

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Because back in those days, you know, when you had head trauma,

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uh, you know, if you got…

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You came out of the ring and you, you know, they saw that you

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were out briefly, it was like, "Hey, are, are you good to go?

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Follow my finger.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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You're, you're good to go tomorrow."

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Yeah.

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And we would do it.

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Yeah.

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And so I guess my question is this: because now I'm 54, there's no question

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that I can tell that some of my shit's a little bit different, and I do,

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you know, I take a lot of different, uh, I, I do a lot of different things

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to try to make sure that I preserve, you know, my cognitive function.

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But I guess from…

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I'd just love to hear your input on, you know, is there…

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What would be the best thing for me to do to, to make sure that I am moving

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forward with this in a positive way?

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But then at the same time, help me understand the fact that some of the worst

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stuff for me came after that age of 25.

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Love to hear your input.

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No, even after the age of 25, it's not safe for a human brain

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to receive repeated blows.

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The human brain is about 60 to 80% water.

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The human brain does not have any capacity to regenerate itself.

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It's not like the liver.

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If you damage your liver, it regrows.

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Yeah.

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However, having said that, people need to know that it's not all about CTE Okay

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it is just a speck in the spectrum.

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Okay.

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There are other types of manifestations of brain damage outside CTE.

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For example, memory impairment.

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You may have memory impairment without having CTE.

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You may have mood disorders.

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Well, let me- You may have- So real quick, can I jump in right there?

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Can I jump in right there, brother?

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Because that's, from where I noticed about was probably a year and a half ago, two

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years ago, I was like, God, I would…

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It's, you know, fairly common, most people have episodes where you walk into another

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room and forget what you're there for.

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Well, that was happening, but it started happening more and more, but

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it happened to the point where I'd go to the room, forget what I was doing.

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Usually I could go back to where I came from.

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It would trigger my brain, like, "Okay, that's what I was supposed to do."

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So I would go back to the original room, fuck, I still don't remember.

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So I was, like, just forgetting point blank altogether.

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So that was the point where I said, "Okay, I need to start doing

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some shit to make this better."

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So- So, so it's not, um…

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So when, if, when you've suffered cumulative trauma,

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you shouldn't become cynical.

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No.

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No.

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You should do, engage your doctors, do everything you

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should do to live a healthy life.

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Yes.

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For sure.

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But primarily prevent further blows to your head.

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Yeah.

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Those, those- Yeah … tha- those are, those are done.

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Eat healthy, eat good food, see your doctor, do what your doctor tells you.

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Engage in healthy mental hygiene.

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Um, engage in, you know, if spirituality helps you, be positive.

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And do everything you could do to sustain your physical and mental health,

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but primarily avoid repeated blows.

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Avoid things like alcohol.

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By avoid- than alcohol, I mean, don't drink every day.

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Drink every now and then.

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Avoid cigarette smoking and avoid all the harmful effects and factors in your life.

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Live a healthy life.

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Develop a very positive and strong mental attitude.

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That is very important.

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And what I've discovered in all the players I've met, develop a very strong

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relationship with your significant other.

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If there's one single factor I have seen that has been very helpful,

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live around people who love you.

00:14:32,293 --> 00:14:35,190
Celebrate love, celebrate positivity.

00:14:35,659 --> 00:14:37,058
You will do okay.

00:14:37,085 --> 00:14:38,730
This is a permanent disease.

00:14:38,784 --> 00:14:40,351
It could be progressive.

00:14:40,679 --> 00:14:45,961
Sometimes it could take up to 40 years to manifest after you stop playing

00:14:46,269 --> 00:14:48,619
or after your last blow to your head.

00:14:49,023 --> 00:14:51,829
But please don't be cynical, be optimistic.

00:14:52,085 --> 00:14:56,565
I have seen people who've lived with CTE for decades, but they

00:14:56,565 --> 00:14:58,568
were doing what the doctor said.

00:14:58,862 --> 00:15:02,699
Take your medications, live a healthy life, surround yourself

00:15:02,723 --> 00:15:04,907
with, uh, positive energy.

00:15:05,144 --> 00:15:06,900
Be around people that love you.

00:15:07,092 --> 00:15:09,054
Celebrate your humanity.

00:15:09,672 --> 00:15:15,195
That will go a long way to make you live a healthy, successful, joyful life.

00:15:15,264 --> 00:15:18,324
Yes, but primarily prevention is the key.

00:15:18,385 --> 00:15:24,079
Meaning, like Barack Obama said, and so many other successful players, "If

00:15:24,079 --> 00:15:32,270
I had a son, I wouldn't let my son play-" Prevention is the key Yeah.

00:15:32,275 --> 00:15:32,469
Yeah.

00:15:32,469 --> 00:15:35,704
I, I love hearing that because as you went through all the things

00:15:35,708 --> 00:15:40,081
to do, I felt like I have the majority of those boxes checked.

00:15:40,536 --> 00:15:44,076
And, you know, I've, I've, you know, I live my life in a very positive state.

00:15:44,136 --> 00:15:47,315
I spend time in the morning getting my brain into a positive state.

00:15:47,346 --> 00:15:50,697
What I do notice is in the morning, that if I don't spend a little bit

00:15:50,697 --> 00:15:55,089
of time to center myself and get the, the proper thought processes going,

00:15:55,505 --> 00:15:58,980
then that ship will go down a rabbit hole in a negative way real fast.

00:15:59,235 --> 00:16:03,286
So I, I, every morning, I, I'll make sure, I call it s- you know,

00:16:03,310 --> 00:16:04,842
I call it sitting in silence.

00:16:05,248 --> 00:16:05,429
Yes.

00:16:05,431 --> 00:16:06,444
Because it's- Meditation.

00:16:06,487 --> 00:16:07,045
Meditation.

00:16:07,054 --> 00:16:07,259
Yeah.

00:16:07,259 --> 00:16:07,270
Meditation.

00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:09,973
I, I don't use the word meditation because people freak out.

00:16:09,989 --> 00:16:10,442
They go, "Ooh."

00:16:12,768 --> 00:16:13,449
So I say, "Look."

00:16:13,721 --> 00:16:14,219
"What do you do?"

00:16:14,221 --> 00:16:15,322
"I sit in silence."

00:16:15,395 --> 00:16:16,021
"Well, what do you do?"

00:16:16,270 --> 00:16:17,337
"Well, I center myself."

00:16:17,337 --> 00:16:19,060
"Well, what, what do you do when you center yourself?"

00:16:19,085 --> 00:16:23,161
"Well, I, I prompt my brain to have good thoughts and let it get into that group.

00:16:23,230 --> 00:16:27,257
And then once my brain goes down the posit ra- positive rabbit hole, I'm

00:16:27,266 --> 00:16:31,016
grateful for my kids, I'm grateful for my wife, my wonderful- Yeah … life

00:16:31,018 --> 00:16:32,835
and what, look what I get to do today."

00:16:33,208 --> 00:16:33,523
Yeah.

00:16:33,523 --> 00:16:36,090
And when I, once I'm in that place, I can feel it in my body.

00:16:36,324 --> 00:16:37,487
And I'm like, "Okay, let's go."

00:16:37,487 --> 00:16:39,188
Yes, I can, I can even feel you from here.

00:16:39,284 --> 00:16:43,375
You know, myself, I'm not shy, but I, I pray.

00:16:43,884 --> 00:16:48,971
I've, and I've noticed that the times of my life when I wake up, spend about 15,

00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:55,967
30 minutes praying, reading my Bible, I do better during those days of my life.

00:16:56,282 --> 00:16:56,634
Yeah.

00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,525
When I, when I wake up, first thing I do is to pray, read a Bible, meditate.

00:17:00,817 --> 00:17:02,817
Everything in my life works better.

00:17:03,038 --> 00:17:03,275
Yeah.

00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:04,150
Yeah.

00:17:04,152 --> 00:17:05,974
You know, you- And I'm speaking for myself.

00:17:06,491 --> 00:17:09,864
No matter whatever, meditation, prayer, whatever it is.

00:17:10,217 --> 00:17:10,976
It's so true.

00:17:11,141 --> 00:17:12,541
Health, mental hygiene.

00:17:12,554 --> 00:17:13,616
It's, well, yeah, 100%.

00:17:13,616 --> 00:17:16,378
It's like I always make a joke, but it's the truth.

00:17:16,902 --> 00:17:19,143
You know, you have to practice belief.

00:17:19,645 --> 00:17:19,677
Yes.

00:17:19,677 --> 00:17:22,772
Whatever you want to call belief, you, you gotta do it every day or

00:17:22,773 --> 00:17:25,112
you get really shitty at believing.

00:17:27,913 --> 00:17:30,968
Bennett Omalu That was nothing.

00:17:30,968 --> 00:17:35,422
In spite of everything, what brought me to my website was the recognition

00:17:35,426 --> 00:17:37,948
of that shared common humanity we had.

00:17:38,428 --> 00:17:38,813
God.

00:17:38,854 --> 00:17:41,667
Whatever I was doing, I wasn't doing for myself.

00:17:42,613 --> 00:17:47,576
I was doing it to help, to give, to reach out and help another human being,

00:17:47,592 --> 00:17:50,268
though in death, that needed help.

00:17:50,969 --> 00:17:51,137
Yeah.

00:17:51,137 --> 00:17:51,446
You know?

00:17:51,499 --> 00:17:52,459
So think about it.

00:17:52,477 --> 00:17:56,205
If every human being could do that- Mm … do something to make

00:17:56,206 --> 00:18:00,515
a difference in the life of someone else, the world will become a heaven.

00:18:01,517 --> 00:18:03,075
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:05,796
Bennett Omalu hanging out with Keith and Jon this morning.

00:18:05,858 --> 00:18:07,091
This is awesome.

00:18:07,552 --> 00:18:09,001
Hey, Bennett, uh, Dr.

00:18:09,001 --> 00:18:10,893
Jon, Patrick, do you have- Wait, real quick, before we shift gears, let me

00:18:10,893 --> 00:18:12,220
ask you- Yeah … a question about that.

00:18:12,220 --> 00:18:13,642
So- Yeah … Dr.

00:18:13,642 --> 00:18:17,396
Bennett, one thing that I did that I saw that actually made a really

00:18:17,415 --> 00:18:21,206
profound difference in terms of going into the room forgetting, going

00:18:21,207 --> 00:18:23,317
back forgetting again, like I…

00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:27,586
It's, it's been funny when I say this kind of joke, when I say, "I can't

00:18:27,597 --> 00:18:32,233
remember the last time that I went into a room and forgot what I was there for."

00:18:32,274 --> 00:18:34,405
So that whole, I kind of put that problem to bed.

00:18:35,165 --> 00:18:36,730
And it was actually a, a, it would…

00:18:36,788 --> 00:18:39,762
I guess it would be considered to be a nootropic called Dihexa

00:18:40,464 --> 00:18:41,701
that really helped with that.

00:18:41,727 --> 00:18:45,350
Now granted, I used it for a while, and I realized that, that the effects

00:18:45,352 --> 00:18:49,419
were basically it helped and then I stopped, 'cause it's not a forever thing.

00:18:49,431 --> 00:18:53,829
But as I understand it, from the, 'cause I had, the research that I did

00:18:53,829 --> 00:18:58,559
is friends that helped me understand- Ultimately, it was, it's about helping

00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,981
the brain lay down new neural pathways.

00:19:01,277 --> 00:19:01,738
Got it.

00:19:02,081 --> 00:19:02,242
Yeah.

00:19:02,242 --> 00:19:06,992
And so- Yeah … but I did notice that at a certain point it wasn't really bringing

00:19:06,992 --> 00:19:09,729
me any more benefits, and I actually started to kind of create a little

00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:11,714
bit of an- like, more almost anxiety.

00:19:11,717 --> 00:19:15,454
So I was, "Okay, it's done its job, so now it's time to stop."

00:19:15,703 --> 00:19:15,730
Yeah.

00:19:15,730 --> 00:19:17,158
Just like anything else, you know.

00:19:17,378 --> 00:19:19,261
You do too much of anything- Yeah

00:19:19,261 --> 00:19:22,826
there's that, there's that, you know, that razor's edge on to the side

00:19:22,826 --> 00:19:24,339
you're not looking for, you know?

00:19:24,503 --> 00:19:24,741
Yeah.

00:19:24,785 --> 00:19:29,196
In fact, I've met so many people, some people do hyperbaric oxygen.

00:19:29,273 --> 00:19:29,716
It help.

00:19:29,716 --> 00:19:31,576
Whatever you do that helps, you do it.

00:19:31,826 --> 00:19:33,666
Some people use marijuana.

00:19:34,226 --> 00:19:37,367
Um, some people engage in different other things.

00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:42,178
But many times I advise people do it under the guidance of a health professional.

00:19:42,558 --> 00:19:42,805
Yeah.

00:19:42,805 --> 00:19:48,393
Or if you have a nearby, um, university hospital that has a, a rehabilitation

00:19:48,394 --> 00:19:51,072
department, seek their help and guidance.

00:19:51,247 --> 00:19:52,874
People who are experts.

00:19:52,877 --> 00:19:53,581
There's a lot.

00:19:53,594 --> 00:19:55,584
Medicine has advanced so much.

00:19:55,726 --> 00:19:58,252
We have so much at our disposal.

00:19:58,504 --> 00:20:02,908
So please don't, um, become, uh, pessimistic, cynical.

00:20:02,908 --> 00:20:03,986
"Oh, I have CTE."

00:20:03,992 --> 00:20:05,329
No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:05,858
Yeah.

00:20:05,873 --> 00:20:09,390
You can still live a very healthy life.

00:20:09,564 --> 00:20:13,703
A fulfilling life- Yeah … if you remain positive about the- Well, brother, you

00:20:13,703 --> 00:20:17,538
know, on that level I love when you say live a positive life, 'cause I, I, I've

00:20:17,538 --> 00:20:21,217
got a wife who, who supported me- I knew you were go- I knew you were going here.

00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:23,658
My wife has supported me through, through everything.

00:20:23,660 --> 00:20:24,004
Yes.

00:20:24,051 --> 00:20:24,273
I…

00:20:24,709 --> 00:20:27,661
And so one of the jokes I make, you know, we go to watch a movie.

00:20:27,661 --> 00:20:29,446
I'm like, "Honey, let's, let's watch this movie."

00:20:29,449 --> 00:20:32,670
She's like, "Honey, we've seen that, like, three times."

00:20:32,671 --> 00:20:35,333
And I'm, "Well, do you see how lucky I am?

00:20:35,692 --> 00:20:36,781
It's new to me."

00:20:36,896 --> 00:20:38,974
Ah.

00:20:39,398 --> 00:20:44,164
I said the single most important factor I've seen in people like you

00:20:44,185 --> 00:20:48,340
is having a very rich relationship with their significant other.

00:20:49,192 --> 00:20:49,538
Okay.

00:20:49,558 --> 00:20:53,258
That is one elixir I've seen that does magic.

00:20:53,589 --> 00:20:59,762
If you have a partner, a wife or a husband who is there to understand what you're

00:20:59,798 --> 00:21:05,234
passing through, to be there to be your strength when you don't have any strength.

00:21:05,494 --> 00:21:06,387
And that's her.

00:21:06,387 --> 00:21:07,700
To stand when you cannot stand.

00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:08,573
That's her.

00:21:08,573 --> 00:21:09,927
That will take you a long…

00:21:09,949 --> 00:21:11,356
You will live to be 90.

00:21:11,921 --> 00:21:12,781
Well, she's- That is what I'm saying.

00:21:12,788 --> 00:21:15,040
That's- That's my personal thoughts … I love it, brother.

00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:15,357
I love it.

00:21:15,357 --> 00:21:17,954
Because there, and she knows me so well, there's times when

00:21:17,954 --> 00:21:20,774
she'll say- don't be a pussy.

00:21:20,895 --> 00:21:23,748
And there's other times where she'll come and say, "Okay, w-

00:21:23,795 --> 00:21:25,109
we need to take you off the fire.

00:21:25,109 --> 00:21:26,638
Let's give you a little, little time."

00:21:27,038 --> 00:21:31,431
So she understands, you know, all kind of levels of what I go through.

00:21:31,495 --> 00:21:36,638
So that's really, I guess I need to be even more f- i- have even more

00:21:36,638 --> 00:21:38,507
faith in that process with her.

00:21:38,509 --> 00:21:41,897
In fact, yes, Jon, you're blessed and I wish I could meet your wife.

00:21:41,937 --> 00:21:43,333
God, God bless her soul.

00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:44,076
Okay?

00:21:44,225 --> 00:21:45,389
So, and where's our Trisha now?

00:21:45,389 --> 00:21:47,518
Well, she doesn't get up, she doesn't get up till 9:00.

00:21:47,529 --> 00:21:49,464
So I don't think we're gonna meet her today.

00:21:49,493 --> 00:21:51,893
Treat her well, Jon.

00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:52,620
Treat her well.

00:21:53,027 --> 00:21:53,933
'Cause she's precious.

00:21:53,946 --> 00:21:54,766
She's an angel.

00:21:54,987 --> 00:21:55,199
Yeah.

00:21:55,199 --> 00:21:56,875
Lift her up, celebrate her, too.

00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:57,663
Yeah.

00:21:57,679 --> 00:21:58,212
Give her…

00:21:58,507 --> 00:21:59,772
you know, be patient with her.

00:21:59,788 --> 00:22:00,748
Nobody's perfect.

00:22:00,766 --> 00:22:04,109
But know that you may need her more than she may need you.

00:22:04,533 --> 00:22:04,645
Awesome.

00:22:04,650 --> 00:22:06,203
I said, you know what she says, too.

00:22:06,210 --> 00:22:11,435
She says, she said, "Look," she said, "You know, no matter what happens, you know,

00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:14,558
I, I'm gonna take whatever comes my way.

00:22:14,558 --> 00:22:16,504
So we just need to do the best we can with this."

00:22:16,612 --> 00:22:17,042
Thank you.

00:22:17,335 --> 00:22:17,779
Yeah.

00:22:18,092 --> 00:22:18,920
Bennett Omalu.

00:22:18,929 --> 00:22:22,020
Hey, Bennett, we had you here for 30, but this is incredible.

00:22:22,395 --> 00:22:25,848
Would we be, would, would, would we be so kind to get you for more time today?

00:22:26,292 --> 00:22:26,578
Sure.

00:22:26,583 --> 00:22:27,051
Why not?

00:22:27,089 --> 00:22:27,533
Why not?

00:22:27,565 --> 00:22:28,433
I love you guys.

00:22:28,447 --> 00:22:29,348
You're very positive.

00:22:29,428 --> 00:22:29,841
Oh, this is awesome.

00:22:29,842 --> 00:22:31,067
Give out my lifestyle tips.

00:22:31,067 --> 00:22:32,042
Yeah, 100%.

00:22:32,087 --> 00:22:32,322
Yeah, that's it.

00:22:32,322 --> 00:22:33,402
Yeah, I, I agree with you, Jonny.

00:22:33,761 --> 00:22:37,277
Hey, Bennett, so let's get into some of the, maybe some of the, the,

00:22:37,290 --> 00:22:42,674
the, the, the specifics, because a long time has passed since 2005.

00:22:42,826 --> 00:22:47,156
You know, the science has moved since 2005, including formal, you

00:22:47,156 --> 00:22:51,098
know, neuropathological crite- uh, neuropathological criteria.

00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:56,808
Where have you, Bennett, changed your own thinking about CTE

00:22:57,609 --> 00:22:59,989
since the original Webster paper?

00:23:01,522 --> 00:23:04,263
So what, what I think happened was-

00:23:07,553 --> 00:23:22,848
CTE Was journalized, meaning CTE became, the way it's been managed and presented

00:23:22,853 --> 00:23:30,571
to society became something, um, I don't know what word I'm looking for now.

00:23:30,730 --> 00:23:32,540
Uh- Glamurized … glamurized.

00:23:32,955 --> 00:23:33,797
Oh.

00:23:33,797 --> 00:23:34,219
Glamurized.

00:23:34,875 --> 00:23:40,388
It's been turned into a political- Yes, yes … I, I don't like it.

00:23:40,810 --> 00:23:41,799
Yes.

00:23:41,989 --> 00:23:44,982
Well, so like if- CTE has been over-hyped.

00:23:45,973 --> 00:23:48,801
It has been turned into something it's not.

00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:50,304
Oh.

00:23:50,605 --> 00:23:55,846
CTE is not the only disease you suffer when you have a blow to your head.

00:23:55,995 --> 00:23:56,900
It's a speck.

00:23:57,562 --> 00:24:02,453
But the way it's been presented, especially by some groups,

00:24:02,884 --> 00:24:05,221
is like it is all or naught.

00:24:05,409 --> 00:24:08,076
It's all about CTE and nothing else.

00:24:08,306 --> 00:24:09,252
That is a lie.

00:24:10,453 --> 00:24:11,159
I don't like it.

00:24:11,848 --> 00:24:12,263
Oh.

00:24:12,319 --> 00:24:16,437
I don't like the thing of many times journalists will go, "Oh, there was

00:24:16,444 --> 00:24:18,391
this paper published that said this."

00:24:18,745 --> 00:24:22,370
And I, I said to the journalist, "Can you tell me any other aspect of science?"

00:24:22,399 --> 00:24:24,940
Many paper is published, is released to the press.

00:24:26,132 --> 00:24:28,266
That is not the way we practice science.

00:24:29,719 --> 00:24:30,228
Okay?

00:24:30,268 --> 00:24:32,659
Knowledge, knowledge is a journey.

00:24:33,203 --> 00:24:36,525
What we know today wasn't what we knew to- uh, yesterday.

00:24:36,563 --> 00:24:38,353
It's not what we would know tomorrow.

00:24:39,232 --> 00:24:41,879
And don't over-hype CTE.

00:24:41,879 --> 00:24:46,123
People need to know it's just a speck of a very broad spectrum.

00:24:47,109 --> 00:24:52,127
When you're having symptoms like Jon is having, it does not mean you have CTE.

00:24:53,754 --> 00:24:57,373
You may just have a symptom that could be reasonably managed.

00:24:57,601 --> 00:25:00,976
So let us begin to move away from CTE.

00:25:01,277 --> 00:25:05,614
There is an ultra focus on it which is not good for public health, and

00:25:05,614 --> 00:25:07,174
it's not even good for the science.

00:25:08,949 --> 00:25:13,000
Well, you know- I, I- Go ahead, Jon … on that level I was gonna say, and I know

00:25:13,036 --> 00:25:15,745
'cause I've, I know a lot of friends that are pro athletes, and a few of

00:25:15,745 --> 00:25:20,259
them that I know that, uh, played football at a high level in the NFL.

00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:25,842
And one guy, you know, at one point he actually was involved in a business

00:25:25,843 --> 00:25:28,709
of mine, but he, you know, he just…

00:25:29,573 --> 00:25:32,442
I guess long and short of it, he probably is one of the guys that

00:25:32,444 --> 00:25:35,911
you're saying that's not doing, is not having the proper position.

00:25:35,913 --> 00:25:41,256
Because he blames everything in his life that's not going right on CTE, but

00:25:41,270 --> 00:25:45,602
just keeps making all these fucked up decisions and then blaming- Yeah … CTE,

00:25:45,792 --> 00:25:51,216
almost like it's become such a thing, it's, people use it as a way out.

00:25:51,507 --> 00:25:55,482
Now, you know, granted, I, I totally get things could be a little bit different.

00:25:55,484 --> 00:25:56,884
But you can't just point to…

00:25:56,966 --> 00:26:00,444
And forget CTE, you can't point to anything in life and just blame your

00:26:00,444 --> 00:26:03,833
problems on something else, because we have to take responsibility for

00:26:03,835 --> 00:26:05,913
ourselves under any circumstance.

00:26:07,044 --> 00:26:07,609
Yes.

00:26:07,763 --> 00:26:13,614
The, the, I've seen cases, somebody, um, was- violent symptoms, believed he got CTE

00:26:13,630 --> 00:26:15,426
because he played high school football.

00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,373
He eventually committed suicide.

00:26:17,775 --> 00:26:19,585
They examined his brain, guess what he had?

00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:20,656
He had a tumor in his brain.

00:26:21,636 --> 00:26:22,302
He did not have CTE.

00:26:22,302 --> 00:26:23,196
Oh, no shit.

00:26:23,746 --> 00:26:28,321
And you saw the case of a kid who believed he had CTE, took a gun and went

00:26:28,333 --> 00:26:30,453
and killed people at the NFL building.

00:26:31,373 --> 00:26:33,455
So we need to tone it down, guys.

00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,625
And that may be media for it too.

00:26:36,022 --> 00:26:38,741
Scientists, let's chill, relax, relax.

00:26:39,402 --> 00:26:39,581
Yeah.

00:26:39,581 --> 00:26:41,413
The science is still a long way.

00:26:42,183 --> 00:26:44,775
Everybody continue doing your work.

00:26:45,148 --> 00:26:49,219
But when I began this work, my major fear was that my work will

00:26:49,221 --> 00:26:51,312
not be independently validated.

00:26:51,587 --> 00:26:55,866
That was my biggest fear, especially with the powerful NFL doctors

00:26:55,866 --> 00:26:57,695
who were trying to undermine me.

00:26:57,695 --> 00:26:58,402
Yes.

00:26:58,436 --> 00:27:00,149
But we've moved away from that.

00:27:00,176 --> 00:27:05,368
My work has been validated by scientists independently across the world.

00:27:05,803 --> 00:27:07,842
Nobody's no longer contesting it.

00:27:08,058 --> 00:27:09,299
Nobody's saying, "No, Dr.

00:27:09,306 --> 00:27:10,268
Omalu was wrong."

00:27:10,312 --> 00:27:11,214
I wasn't wrong.

00:27:11,701 --> 00:27:14,208
The science has grown bigger than Dr.

00:27:14,208 --> 00:27:14,665
Omalu.

00:27:15,090 --> 00:27:17,918
But please, let us begin to tone it down.

00:27:18,424 --> 00:27:24,241
Um, the CTE of science should not be practiced on, on media platforms.

00:27:25,083 --> 00:27:25,422
No.

00:27:26,168 --> 00:27:26,764
Okay?

00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,264
Yes, let's do our part in educating society, continue working on advancing the

00:27:32,264 --> 00:27:35,007
science, and finally developing a cure.

00:27:35,259 --> 00:27:36,464
That is my focus.

00:27:36,766 --> 00:27:40,183
I know as I speak to you, there are a group of doctors working on

00:27:40,197 --> 00:27:45,391
ways to diagnose it specifically in living people using PET scan.

00:27:45,549 --> 00:27:46,273
I know that.

00:27:46,793 --> 00:27:51,208
So let's continue working all over the world to develop a cure.

00:27:51,246 --> 00:27:54,692
I believe we will with this age of super intelligence.

00:27:55,149 --> 00:27:59,625
So but the way may- the media is managing it, the way some press

00:27:59,681 --> 00:28:04,859
and threads are managing it, let's begin to tone down the hype on CTE.

00:28:05,299 --> 00:28:06,460
It is not healthy.

00:28:07,786 --> 00:28:09,206
It's interest- Yeah, I can see that.

00:28:09,228 --> 00:28:10,228
I totally see that.

00:28:10,252 --> 00:28:14,424
Yes, it's because, you know, 100%, um, it's a very interesting

00:28:14,429 --> 00:28:18,100
conversation how this is just a little piece of the broad spectrum.

00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:18,737
Yeah.

00:28:18,739 --> 00:28:20,971
Well, and it's interesting, Bennet, because when we first started the

00:28:20,971 --> 00:28:24,321
conversation, I believe one of the first questions I asked you was, you know,

00:28:24,366 --> 00:28:26,226
th- this moment when you discovered it.

00:28:26,527 --> 00:28:30,219
And it was almost like the blessing and curse because the moment we put

00:28:30,219 --> 00:28:37,025
a label on it- Society grabs the label, and then society makes some…

00:28:37,059 --> 00:28:37,466
Right?

00:28:37,494 --> 00:28:39,842
Ben, I see you smiling and you know exactly where I'm going, because

00:28:39,845 --> 00:28:41,100
all of a sudden it's got a label.

00:28:41,424 --> 00:28:45,389
We as humans put it into a box, and then that label becomes everything.

00:28:45,429 --> 00:28:49,746
And then when people are searching for an answer, they look for the label.

00:28:49,871 --> 00:28:50,585
Oh, it's the label.

00:28:50,585 --> 00:28:53,717
Well, and, and they use it to their benefit when it works for them.

00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:54,676
That's, that's what I mean.

00:28:54,679 --> 00:28:57,335
So in many ways, B- uh, Ben, I see you smiling 'cause you

00:28:57,335 --> 00:28:58,337
know where I'm going at, right?

00:28:58,338 --> 00:29:00,288
It's like that blessing and a curse, right?

00:29:00,288 --> 00:29:00,976
Let me tell you a story.

00:29:00,979 --> 00:29:01,981
This is ironic.

00:29:01,981 --> 00:29:02,949
I can't believe this.

00:29:02,954 --> 00:29:07,185
So when I showed my findings to Dr.

00:29:07,234 --> 00:29:11,365
Dekosky- Yeah … okay, and I showed it to Dr.

00:29:11,369 --> 00:29:16,177
Hamilton, I wanted them to confirm that what I was seeing was accurate.

00:29:16,637 --> 00:29:17,005
Yes.

00:29:17,438 --> 00:29:18,549
And they confirmed it.

00:29:18,592 --> 00:29:19,315
And then Dr.

00:29:19,326 --> 00:29:22,043
Dekosky said to me in his office, "So what do we do now?"

00:29:22,641 --> 00:29:23,578
"We must publish it.

00:29:24,571 --> 00:29:26,134
And don't just publish it.

00:29:26,156 --> 00:29:27,525
You must give it a name."

00:29:28,308 --> 00:29:28,431
Oh.

00:29:28,967 --> 00:29:29,577
Oh, yeah.

00:29:29,579 --> 00:29:30,222
Oh, shoot.

00:29:30,820 --> 00:29:31,547
But guess what?

00:29:31,547 --> 00:29:34,746
While I'm laughing, then I was going to business school and I was

00:29:34,748 --> 00:29:37,045
taking classes in marketing- Oh.

00:29:37,057 --> 00:29:38,595
… in branding.

00:29:38,708 --> 00:29:40,596
I was taking classes in branding.

00:29:42,752 --> 00:29:46,716
So I knew the power of giving something a name.

00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:47,773
Oh.

00:29:47,831 --> 00:29:52,167
And I knew the power of what a name brings to the table.

00:29:53,330 --> 00:29:59,833
So I went, I spent months, six months researching, going, going back as far

00:29:59,836 --> 00:30:02,874
back as 400 BC to the time of Hippocrates.

00:30:03,423 --> 00:30:06,964
You know, Hippocrates and some other doctor were the ones who named

00:30:06,964 --> 00:30:09,744
it commotio cerebri, concussion.

00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,595
They named it commotio cerebri.

00:30:12,063 --> 00:30:18,507
So I gathered about 36 names, and I selected chronic traumatic encephalopathy

00:30:19,209 --> 00:30:20,905
because of what it stands for.

00:30:21,228 --> 00:30:24,040
First, it had a very good acronym, CTE.

00:30:24,999 --> 00:30:25,325
Okay?

00:30:25,525 --> 00:30:25,899
Yeah.

00:30:25,961 --> 00:30:30,623
Then chronic traumatic encephalopathy doesn't really mean anything.

00:30:31,375 --> 00:30:34,025
It means chronic, something that is long-term.

00:30:34,417 --> 00:30:36,782
Traumatic, something associated with trauma.

00:30:37,167 --> 00:30:40,183
Encephalopathy simply means a bad brain.

00:30:40,812 --> 00:30:41,096
Oh.

00:30:41,096 --> 00:30:41,749
It doesn't mean anything.

00:30:42,862 --> 00:30:44,443
It's a, it's a, it's a s- Why did I do that?

00:30:44,443 --> 00:30:48,848
It's a crazy general term Why did I choose to remove me from Achilles' tower?

00:30:49,755 --> 00:30:50,311
Yeah.

00:30:50,311 --> 00:30:50,401
So that name, it doesn't mean anything after all.

00:30:50,420 --> 00:30:51,333
I wasn't wrong.

00:30:52,297 --> 00:30:58,568
But the acronym, CTE, and I know chronic traumatic encephalopathy

00:30:58,574 --> 00:31:00,117
sounded very erudite.

00:31:00,791 --> 00:31:03,797
So when somebody says it, the person will feel intelligent.

00:31:04,025 --> 00:31:07,193
So people are more likely to keep on using it to feel good.

00:31:07,517 --> 00:31:10,536
When they can't say it, they have a fallback, CTE.

00:31:10,925 --> 00:31:11,705
And guess what?

00:31:12,156 --> 00:31:14,568
It's been super successful.

00:31:15,239 --> 00:31:15,993
Yes.

00:31:16,766 --> 00:31:20,021
So it's almost like saying CTE is almost like saying crazy.

00:31:20,022 --> 00:31:21,212
Well, what kind of crazy?

00:31:22,925 --> 00:31:23,239
Yeah.

00:31:23,239 --> 00:31:23,249
Yeah.

00:31:23,754 --> 00:31:25,653
Well, 'cause it's, in some ways it's somewhat gen…

00:31:25,679 --> 00:31:28,714
I don't want to say it's generic, but there's, how I'm, what I'm learning from

00:31:28,724 --> 00:31:33,949
Ben is that it's, it's, it's- It, it's not the label, I'll be honest, it's not

00:31:33,949 --> 00:31:35,911
the label that I thought it was, Bennett.

00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:38,663
Well, as, as, as I'm coming to this conversation, you, you,

00:31:38,903 --> 00:31:39,942
you're educating me on it- Well-

00:31:39,942 --> 00:31:42,460
that it's not this, this label per se.

00:31:42,476 --> 00:31:42,828
Johnny?

00:31:43,086 --> 00:31:46,480
Well, the genius behind it, because he wanted to bring awareness, but

00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,191
he didn't want- Yes … he didn't want to pin it to this thing.

00:31:49,266 --> 00:31:50,777
It almost, it just…

00:31:50,894 --> 00:31:54,901
it's, it's like saying- … you know, it's bad weather.

00:31:54,918 --> 00:31:55,765
What kind of bad weather?

00:31:55,765 --> 00:31:56,299
Yes.

00:31:56,313 --> 00:31:56,834
Thank you.

00:31:57,300 --> 00:31:57,642
Yes.

00:31:58,095 --> 00:31:58,911
Yes.

00:31:59,652 --> 00:32:00,130
Yes.

00:32:00,130 --> 00:32:01,215
Are we talking clouds?

00:32:01,216 --> 00:32:02,149
Are we talking rain?

00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:03,278
Are we talking lightning?

00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:04,283
Are we talking thunder?

00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:04,968
What kind?

00:32:05,185 --> 00:32:05,561
Yeah.

00:32:05,566 --> 00:32:05,795
Yeah.

00:32:06,466 --> 00:32:06,853
Yeah.

00:32:06,934 --> 00:32:07,311
Yeah.

00:32:07,311 --> 00:32:07,321
Yeah.

00:32:08,275 --> 00:32:08,627
Yeah.

00:32:08,631 --> 00:32:13,803
'Cause, 'cause like you said, it took, um, I, I, I described my website in 2002,

00:32:14,301 --> 00:32:17,913
and the criteria for diagnosis was 2016.

00:32:19,194 --> 00:32:21,089
As I was 14 years later.

00:32:21,899 --> 00:32:27,064
So then I was looking at my website, but I didn't know what I was seeing.

00:32:27,643 --> 00:32:31,265
I didn't know what the diagnostic criteria needed.

00:32:31,353 --> 00:32:34,634
All I knew was s- this is not Alzheimer's disease.

00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:38,615
This is not anything I've seen before, in such a young player.

00:32:38,819 --> 00:32:41,739
This is not dementia pugilistica in boxer.

00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:42,971
Okay?

00:32:43,065 --> 00:32:48,729
Uh, so but the good thing is, other researchers came on board, took it and

00:32:48,729 --> 00:32:53,217
ran with it, and actually confirmed, validated, that is how science works.

00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,830
Validated everything I said in the Mike Webster paper, and

00:32:56,838 --> 00:33:00,774
other papers, in the Kevin Long paper, in the Chris Benoit paper.

00:33:01,198 --> 00:33:03,977
Um, there was a time the NFL asked a question.

00:33:04,333 --> 00:33:05,900
I had seen about six cases.

00:33:05,933 --> 00:33:11,333
They said, "Why is this v- voodoo doctor from Africa the only one seeing these

00:33:11,358 --> 00:33:13,228
things, and no other doctor is seeing it?

00:33:13,804 --> 00:33:15,579
That he must be practicing voodoo."

00:33:16,678 --> 00:33:16,785
Yeah.

00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,257
Well, you be- I'll tell you why, 'cause you paid for the fucking study yourself.

00:33:20,276 --> 00:33:21,435
You weren't being, y- Yeah.

00:33:21,503 --> 00:33:23,481
You weren't being paid- Yeah … by someone else to

00:33:23,485 --> 00:33:24,890
give us, to give an outcome.

00:33:25,249 --> 00:33:26,037
Interesting.

00:33:26,404 --> 00:33:30,089
Hey, Bennett, so, so, so Chris Nowinski is, is, you know, Chris,

00:33:30,260 --> 00:33:32,103
former wrestler, uh, obviously- Yeah

00:33:32,110 --> 00:33:33,655
start- started an institute.

00:33:34,058 --> 00:33:37,130
Uh, you know, uh, the Chris Benoit paper you talked about.

00:33:37,130 --> 00:33:38,850
I, I grew up watching wrestling.

00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:40,050
My brother here wrestled.

00:33:40,050 --> 00:33:44,559
So talk a little bit about the work that Nowinski's doing and, and, and, and the

00:33:44,571 --> 00:33:46,426
Benoit paper, and what, what that…

00:33:46,995 --> 00:33:50,440
You know, what Chris has done within, I guess, wrestling per se, and just kind

00:33:50,441 --> 00:33:51,891
of from a, from a high level view, Ben.

00:33:51,901 --> 00:33:53,144
Any, any comments on that?

00:33:53,533 --> 00:33:58,527
So I think, um, you know, like when we investigate death-

00:33:59,886 --> 00:34:05,306
The investigation of that is a multidisciplinary, multifaceted effort.

00:34:06,366 --> 00:34:08,286
Each person has a role to play.

00:34:08,866 --> 00:34:09,206
Ah.

00:34:09,626 --> 00:34:16,446
So Chris Nowinski has played a significant role in the, in the CTE journey.

00:34:17,306 --> 00:34:17,766
Okay?

00:34:18,106 --> 00:34:19,205
I give him credit.

00:34:20,146 --> 00:34:24,226
Um, do I have some criticisms of the way he handled things?

00:34:24,426 --> 00:34:24,726
Yes.

00:34:24,826 --> 00:34:24,836
Yes.

00:34:24,866 --> 00:34:26,266
But nobody's perfect.

00:34:26,386 --> 00:34:26,396
Yes.

00:34:26,406 --> 00:34:27,526
Nobody's perfect.

00:34:27,946 --> 00:34:31,926
He, he did, uh, he's contributed significantly and substantially

00:34:31,985 --> 00:34:34,446
to the CTE narrative.

00:34:34,986 --> 00:34:41,726
Um, I lost contact with him about, I don't know, 20 years ago.

00:34:42,266 --> 00:34:47,585
Um, I don't know what he's doing now, but I'll give him credit at the right

00:34:47,665 --> 00:34:53,505
time, at the right point in time in that journey, he played a substantial

00:34:53,566 --> 00:34:59,226
and significant role in enhancing and contributing to the CTE narrative.

00:34:59,526 --> 00:35:02,006
I was gonna say, that, that was my … Thank you, 'cause that was

00:35:02,066 --> 00:35:06,726
my impression, is that Nowinski, rightly or wrongly, increased the n-

00:35:06,726 --> 00:35:09,486
Trying to be part of the solution, not a part of the problem … Yeah.

00:35:09,646 --> 00:35:12,586
Well, he increased the narrative around it, 'cause I, I witnessed it a- and

00:35:12,686 --> 00:35:14,066
I'm a, and I've, I've watched it.

00:35:14,266 --> 00:35:16,466
I'm, I'm a f- I'm, I'm, I'm a very curious person.

00:35:16,506 --> 00:35:18,665
I've w- I watched- Yeah … the movie with, with, uh, with Will.

00:35:18,745 --> 00:35:21,986
I, I wa- I followed w- uh, the Ben Wa stuff, the Nowinski stuff-

00:35:22,046 --> 00:35:22,785
Yeah … the Webster stuff.

00:35:23,186 --> 00:35:24,566
It's all quite fascinating to me.

00:35:24,625 --> 00:35:27,506
So I, when you say that it was a heightening of a narrative,

00:35:27,606 --> 00:35:28,766
I c- I can appreciate that.

00:35:28,806 --> 00:35:31,986
But maybe that also contributed to some of the challenges, Bennet,

00:35:32,086 --> 00:35:33,186
right, that we're having, right?

00:35:33,205 --> 00:35:37,086
Look, uh, uh, uh, by the way, Chris Nowinski was one of the pioneers

00:35:37,186 --> 00:35:39,846
of the CTE center in Boston.

00:35:40,106 --> 00:35:40,526
Yes.

00:35:40,586 --> 00:35:40,886
Yes.

00:35:40,926 --> 00:35:42,906
He was one of the people who started it.

00:35:43,526 --> 00:35:48,826
And then, like I had said, again, there were other competing interests

00:35:48,886 --> 00:35:54,625
and narratives- Yes … um, uh, which I saw, but nobody is perfect.

00:35:55,106 --> 00:36:00,106
And I think that may have also contributed to the mis- misappropriation, the

00:36:00,186 --> 00:36:02,686
misappropriation of the science of CTE.

00:36:02,966 --> 00:36:03,625
Interesting.

00:36:04,006 --> 00:36:07,566
Um, which I think now, in fact, it's funny, somebody from

00:36:07,625 --> 00:36:09,646
Variety magazine called me.

00:36:09,705 --> 00:36:10,966
They are writing a story.

00:36:11,266 --> 00:36:14,806
I think people have reached the point where they, everybody understands, look,

00:36:15,046 --> 00:36:19,665
we now need to change our approach to CTE.

00:36:20,226 --> 00:36:20,386
Yes.

00:36:20,665 --> 00:36:21,745
It's becoming over-hyped.

00:36:21,806 --> 00:36:24,106
I think everybody's beginning to recognize that.

00:36:24,526 --> 00:36:24,806
Yes.

00:36:26,165 --> 00:36:26,366
Yes.

00:36:26,426 --> 00:36:27,326
So let's go to sports.

00:36:27,506 --> 00:36:30,625
So I, I agree with you, and, and I'm, I'm learning through this conversation

00:36:30,665 --> 00:36:36,686
that n- now I recognize why sport has not only been … Uh, uh, so what I'm … M-

00:36:36,705 --> 00:36:41,106
my observation, rightly or wrongly, but I, I suspect why sport has been so

00:36:41,165 --> 00:36:44,386
maybe adamant against you for so long was because of what you've been talking

00:36:44,426 --> 00:36:48,566
about today, which has been, like, uh, there's more involved than just this.

00:36:49,006 --> 00:36:53,285
Just because a guy had a h- a concussion playing hockey a few times doesn't mean

00:36:53,306 --> 00:36:56,285
that he immediately has- Just wait till he comes up with the next fucking acronym.

00:36:56,346 --> 00:36:57,125
Then what happens?

00:36:57,186 --> 00:36:57,546
Look out.

00:37:00,334 --> 00:37:07,731
Hey, Bennett, so when Will Smith, th- when they decided to make a movie about you,

00:37:07,737 --> 00:37:09,824
were you like, "What the hell's going on?

00:37:09,827 --> 00:37:12,904
They're making a movie about me and they want what, Will Smith to be me?"

00:37:12,985 --> 00:37:15,166
Well, well, like I said that

00:37:17,797 --> 00:37:21,016
But, you know, Hollywood tells stories.

00:37:21,419 --> 00:37:22,067
Okay?

00:37:22,570 --> 00:37:28,396
So Hollywood took notice about how I was being marginalized and- Oh.

00:37:28,561 --> 00:37:30,534
I remember I met Ridley Scott.

00:37:30,589 --> 00:37:32,739
You know Ridley Scott is Scottish.

00:37:33,651 --> 00:37:37,427
So he, I met his wife Giannina and many other great people.

00:37:37,952 --> 00:37:41,775
They, they don't like the way I was being marginalized, and they believed

00:37:41,775 --> 00:37:44,941
it was mainly because I was a foreigner.

00:37:44,941 --> 00:37:45,988
I was very young.

00:37:45,998 --> 00:37:47,538
I was in my 30s.

00:37:47,610 --> 00:37:53,788
Um- Yeah … so they stepped in and said, "Hollywood has a role to play."

00:37:55,008 --> 00:37:57,553
They tell stories of the truth.

00:37:58,534 --> 00:38:03,232
Let us tell the truth of what happened, 'cause if we don't do that, 30, 40

00:38:03,236 --> 00:38:08,227
years from now, this narrative as it is today wouldn't be what it would be.

00:38:09,222 --> 00:38:09,846
Okay?

00:38:10,278 --> 00:38:16,476
So people had some sense of duty, sense of patriotism, sense of nationality.

00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:23,240
Let's tell this story as it is now when we can to, to reaffirm what truly happened

00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,315
so that Bennett's name is not erased from the narrative, which historically

00:38:28,322 --> 00:38:29,940
has happened in America much- Yeah.

00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:33,672
Yeah … much- It's, that shit's not going away anymore So- There's no fucking way

00:38:33,672 --> 00:38:36,128
Hollywood came together, Sony executives.

00:38:36,147 --> 00:38:41,310
It wasn't an easy effort 'cause there were forces behind that that wanted to stop it.

00:38:42,223 --> 00:38:46,828
But whenever you do something for the good of humanity, not just for

00:38:46,828 --> 00:38:49,125
yourself, um, you will prevail.

00:38:49,172 --> 00:38:50,613
That's my lesson in this.

00:38:51,168 --> 00:38:55,920
Even Will Smith at the beginning did not want to do the movie, you know,

00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,473
because of the political ramifications.

00:38:59,072 --> 00:39:06,536
But as he got to know me more, uh, saw my courage- Oh … um, he was bothered

00:39:06,587 --> 00:39:11,482
'cause he said, "If, if Bennett could do this, damn the consequences," why not him?

00:39:12,411 --> 00:39:13,056
Okay?

00:39:13,369 --> 00:39:14,057
Um- Wow.

00:39:14,081 --> 00:39:17,799
That's strong … uh, yeah, that it just comes a time in your life where

00:39:17,799 --> 00:39:19,218
you just have to do the right thing.

00:39:20,198 --> 00:39:20,414
Wow.

00:39:20,423 --> 00:39:25,333
And honestly, the single person I give the greatest credit to educate

00:39:25,334 --> 00:39:27,977
society about CTE was Will Smith.

00:39:28,467 --> 00:39:29,102
Really?

00:39:29,567 --> 00:39:31,702
'Cause he was the prince of Hollywood.

00:39:31,702 --> 00:39:32,835
He told the story and everybody listened to him.

00:39:32,835 --> 00:39:33,528
Yes.

00:39:33,571 --> 00:39:33,908
Yeah.

00:39:34,067 --> 00:39:38,045
Without, without him being in the movie, I don't think the movie would have

00:39:38,045 --> 00:39:39,858
recog- received the recognition it did.

00:39:40,632 --> 00:39:42,334
So then Bennett, let's have some fun.

00:39:42,587 --> 00:39:43,299
You've watched the movie.

00:39:43,308 --> 00:39:46,565
No, I think, I think Will Smith has not been given the credit honestly

00:39:47,204 --> 00:39:51,628
for what he has done to educate the public about brain health.

00:39:52,486 --> 00:39:56,481
'Cause he now took the CTE narrative up to the stratosphere.

00:39:56,912 --> 00:39:57,272
Yeah.

00:39:57,437 --> 00:40:00,957
And now people took notice globally, not just America.

00:40:00,985 --> 00:40:01,979
'Cause I'll tell you a story.

00:40:01,980 --> 00:40:06,365
I was, was in the Pech Mountains in Prague, Czech Republic.

00:40:06,648 --> 00:40:06,847
Yeah.

00:40:06,850 --> 00:40:07,284
Okay?

00:40:08,115 --> 00:40:11,966
And I gave a talk, and in the evening my security said, "Hey,

00:40:11,969 --> 00:40:13,446
let's go watch a soccer game."

00:40:14,212 --> 00:40:19,491
And there I was just sitting down, nobody knew who I was, and suddenly somebody, uh,

00:40:19,536 --> 00:40:24,344
somebody got kicked in the head, and then there was a commotion in their language,

00:40:24,378 --> 00:40:26,239
and my security guy started laughing.

00:40:26,540 --> 00:40:27,418
I said, "Why are you laughing?"

00:40:27,641 --> 00:40:29,307
He said, "Can I tell you what they are saying?

00:40:29,321 --> 00:40:31,987
They're saying," he said, "The guy's mother came and said, 'No,

00:40:31,987 --> 00:40:33,423
no, no, take him out of play.

00:40:33,708 --> 00:40:36,996
Haven't you heard of this disease the Americans are talking about?

00:40:37,344 --> 00:40:38,769
Haven't you heard of the disease?'"

00:40:41,527 --> 00:40:43,454
I'm in the mountains of nowhere.

00:40:43,677 --> 00:40:44,647
No kidding.

00:40:44,650 --> 00:40:48,686
So now the global impact- of what Will Smith has done.

00:40:48,901 --> 00:40:53,039
I don't think people know about CTE in Praha because of Bennett Omalu.

00:40:53,112 --> 00:40:53,716
No.

00:40:54,294 --> 00:40:57,499
They know about CTE in Praha because Will Smith acted in a

00:40:57,502 --> 00:41:00,044
movie that told the story of CTE.

00:41:00,396 --> 00:41:00,811
Yeah.

00:41:00,916 --> 00:41:01,230
Yeah.

00:41:01,683 --> 00:41:04,027
So Bennett, let's, let's stay with Will for a second.

00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,528
When you watched the movie, and, and did, did Will Smith ever do

00:41:07,529 --> 00:41:11,936
something as you that made you think- … "Wait, wait a minute.

00:41:12,003 --> 00:41:13,415
I'm not doing that."

00:41:15,566 --> 00:41:16,190
Yes.

00:41:18,388 --> 00:41:21,552
The way, the way, the way he turns his head.

00:41:23,025 --> 00:41:23,482
You know?

00:41:23,564 --> 00:41:26,256
Like, if you watch him in the movie, whenever he turns his head.

00:41:26,683 --> 00:41:28,823
Once he did, I'm like, "Good Lord."

00:41:29,868 --> 00:41:31,209
"Jesus."

00:41:32,851 --> 00:41:36,877
And then, I don't know if you paid attention, I, I cannot,

00:41:36,936 --> 00:41:38,927
I cannot roll my tongue.

00:41:39,658 --> 00:41:44,400
So any word that has an R, I tend to pronounce it almost like an O.

00:41:44,664 --> 00:41:45,767
Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:41:46,172 --> 00:41:47,395
And he picked up on it.

00:41:48,106 --> 00:41:48,636
Ah.

00:41:48,874 --> 00:41:48,995
Oh.

00:41:48,995 --> 00:41:52,401
I didn't tell him, he just picked up on it, you know?

00:41:52,401 --> 00:41:52,412
Yeah.

00:41:52,561 --> 00:41:58,896
So there'll be many things in the movie I, uh, the way he speaks,

00:41:59,415 --> 00:42:02,473
um, I think I'll give him an A+.

00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:03,488
Yeah.

00:42:03,488 --> 00:42:08,690
Now, in terms of the intonation, the decision was made to tone it down

00:42:09,403 --> 00:42:11,636
'cause they didn't wanna use subscripts.

00:42:11,807 --> 00:42:12,343
Oh.

00:42:12,750 --> 00:42:15,884
So the intonation was intentionally toned down.

00:42:15,919 --> 00:42:20,397
And then I no- I know something else people will notice in the movie.

00:42:21,185 --> 00:42:23,860
You've seen that I laugh, I have this loud laughter.

00:42:24,153 --> 00:42:24,597
Yes.

00:42:25,096 --> 00:42:28,000
If you watch the movie, Will Smith never laughed out loud.

00:42:29,123 --> 00:42:29,408
Oh, yeah.

00:42:29,408 --> 00:42:33,082
I definitely don't, I definitely don't recognize the laugh from the movie.

00:42:33,110 --> 00:42:34,561
He wouldn't get my laughter.

00:42:35,614 --> 00:42:38,281
So the decision was made to take it out of the movie.

00:42:40,178 --> 00:42:41,922
Well, well, let's, let's keep laughing.

00:42:41,953 --> 00:42:44,578
So Bennett, one of the things we like- One of the things we like to

00:42:44,578 --> 00:42:46,012
do in the show is just mix it up.

00:42:46,016 --> 00:42:48,073
Keith and Jon get up- … Monday through Friday live.

00:42:48,294 --> 00:42:51,896
We help men get up and get after it and have fun conversations that start today.

00:42:51,896 --> 00:42:51,906
Yeah.

00:42:51,906 --> 00:42:55,801
And, and I fou- I found, guys, Bennett, Johnny, check this out.

00:42:55,864 --> 00:43:03,243
I found a 67-year-old woman upset in front of her courthouse doing donuts on the

00:43:03,243 --> 00:43:08,057
lawn of a courthouse, and I think this is actually in Atlanta, so in Georgia.

00:43:08,265 --> 00:43:13,848
She, yesterday morning they found her doing donuts on the courthouse lawn.

00:43:13,897 --> 00:43:17,293
So maybe she's a little wacky, Bennett and Johnny.

00:43:17,299 --> 00:43:19,013
Was she mad about something?

00:43:19,013 --> 00:43:19,709
I wish-

00:43:21,955 --> 00:43:22,444
That's EE.

00:43:22,766 --> 00:43:23,796
She's, she's…

00:43:24,035 --> 00:43:25,560
So I was looking for my mom yesterday.

00:43:25,562 --> 00:43:28,637
Glad thing my mom's older than 67, so maybe that's not my mom.

00:43:28,645 --> 00:43:31,778
But look at this lady, she's just going to town on the front of the court lawn.

00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:34,249
Just doing donuts out there, so.

00:43:34,972 --> 00:43:37,552
Hey, Bennett, um, as we wrap up with you, you, you've been so

00:43:37,556 --> 00:43:39,149
grateful with your time today.

00:43:39,354 --> 00:43:41,628
Um- Yeah … one, one, one last question.

00:43:42,278 --> 00:43:46,415
What, what's, um, you know, there are some, some neuropathologists

00:43:46,422 --> 00:43:49,595
that have publicly challenged parts of, of the work that you do.

00:43:50,653 --> 00:43:54,310
What, what do you think they still get wrong today in 2026?

00:43:55,717 --> 00:43:59,817
They didn't get anything right 'cause I've been validated and proven.

00:43:59,882 --> 00:44:01,995
Everything I said has been validated.

00:44:02,202 --> 00:44:02,734
Yeah.

00:44:02,796 --> 00:44:04,396
Oh, let me, let me share a story with you.

00:44:04,645 --> 00:44:10,470
So when I signed the contract for the movie, there were some liability issues.

00:44:10,659 --> 00:44:11,075
Okay.

00:44:11,350 --> 00:44:15,593
Uh, we had to buy insurance for tens of millions of dollars.

00:44:16,153 --> 00:44:22,967
And Sony sent a professional fame psychologist to spend a day with

00:44:22,967 --> 00:44:27,226
me, to advise me on what to expect 'cause they were worried about my

00:44:27,226 --> 00:44:31,730
mental health, on how to manage the pop- uh, you know, the fame.

00:44:32,337 --> 00:44:32,842
Oh.

00:44:32,933 --> 00:44:37,289
So the first thing he said to me is, "Look, we've observed some phenomenon

00:44:38,088 --> 00:44:42,713
around people like you, that the first thing you'll notice is some

00:44:42,713 --> 00:44:46,884
of your colleagues, professional colleagues, will come after you.

00:44:48,124 --> 00:44:51,838
They'll come after you, they will vilify you, they will attack you,

00:44:51,866 --> 00:44:56,225
they will- Oh … say all types of negative, evil things about you.

00:44:57,186 --> 00:45:01,127
Please know that it is not about you."

00:45:01,584 --> 00:45:01,989
Yep.

00:45:02,954 --> 00:45:04,587
"Do not respond, ignore it.

00:45:06,151 --> 00:45:09,584
Because there is nothing you can do or say to change it.

00:45:10,477 --> 00:45:15,368
It is just a phenomenon we've observed in fame psychology that

00:45:15,442 --> 00:45:16,860
everybody is still studying."

00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:22,874
And I was glad they informed me of that 'cause when it began, if you

00:45:22,875 --> 00:45:26,107
notice, I, I, I do not respond.

00:45:26,515 --> 00:45:31,406
If you have problems with what I have published in a scientific paper, if

00:45:31,408 --> 00:45:35,832
you don't agree with me, write your own paper to contest what I have said.

00:45:36,805 --> 00:45:41,269
Don't go to the media and, and just open your mouth like a buffoon.

00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:42,546
Okay?

00:45:42,672 --> 00:45:47,173
So I challenge anybody, has there been any paper that has been published

00:45:47,173 --> 00:45:51,711
in a scientific, uh, journal that has disproven anything I've said?

00:45:51,919 --> 00:45:52,508
Nada.

00:45:54,275 --> 00:45:54,637
Love it.

00:45:54,642 --> 00:45:59,578
I love what you're saying here because, because I, I have a saying that I use all

00:45:59,578 --> 00:46:05,600
the time, and it's basically promoting people to lead, to pioneer their own path,

00:46:05,628 --> 00:46:07,628
to, to work on bigger, better things.

00:46:07,664 --> 00:46:12,851
And that saying is very simple, what you just described If, if they're

00:46:12,851 --> 00:46:17,692
talking shit, if they're talking smack, you're on the right track.

00:46:18,051 --> 00:46:20,908
'Cause they don't talk about the people that are doing nothing, they talk about

00:46:20,908 --> 00:46:22,650
the people that are doing great things.

00:46:23,203 --> 00:46:24,328
So- I, um, thank you.

00:46:24,736 --> 00:46:27,573
My father, my father said to me, God bless his soul.

00:46:27,814 --> 00:46:27,841
Yeah.

00:46:27,841 --> 00:46:31,879
He said, "Bennett, if you're not doing well, nobody will talk about you."

00:46:31,879 --> 00:46:32,628
Yes, yes.

00:46:32,678 --> 00:46:33,325
Exactly.

00:46:33,464 --> 00:46:34,852
So you, nobody will talk about.

00:46:35,123 --> 00:46:38,428
But the moment you start doing well, people will start talking about you.

00:46:38,453 --> 00:46:42,575
And when that begins to happen, you need to be thankful and blessed.

00:46:42,575 --> 00:46:46,109
Well, and, well, and then, and then what happens, you, you, you start

00:46:46,110 --> 00:46:49,156
to realize, God, if, if they're not talking shit about me, then I

00:46:49,165 --> 00:46:51,129
guess I, I need to get back to work.

00:46:51,292 --> 00:46:51,488
Yeah.

00:46:52,049 --> 00:46:52,445
Yeah.

00:46:52,543 --> 00:46:52,780
Yeah.

00:46:54,214 --> 00:46:56,250
Hey, Bennett, I wanna, I wanna make an, I wanna make an

00:46:56,250 --> 00:46:57,330
introduction for you, Bennett.

00:46:57,341 --> 00:46:59,107
So, uh, we got somebody in the comments right now.

00:46:59,107 --> 00:46:59,749
His name is Dr.

00:46:59,749 --> 00:47:00,763
John Petrocelli.

00:47:01,017 --> 00:47:03,794
Uh, he's a world renowned, uh, social scientist professor.

00:47:03,794 --> 00:47:08,212
He teaches bullshit studies at Wake Forest College, uh, in, uh, in the Carolinas.

00:47:08,247 --> 00:47:09,970
Uh, he's joining us in the comments here.

00:47:10,058 --> 00:47:10,660
Awesome dude.

00:47:10,660 --> 00:47:12,498
He's a co-host on the show every single Friday.

00:47:12,754 --> 00:47:14,186
Would love to connect you guys as well.

00:47:14,192 --> 00:47:16,164
Petro, I know you're a fan of Bennett's, and Bennett, I know

00:47:16,165 --> 00:47:17,107
you'd be a fan of Petro's.

00:47:17,110 --> 00:47:19,348
He says, "Truth doesn't have a side.

00:47:19,699 --> 00:47:23,062
My alarming discovery, uh, about the danger of contact

00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,458
sports by Bennett Omalu."

00:47:24,471 --> 00:47:27,382
Big fan of the truth here from Petrocelli, and then he says

00:47:27,383 --> 00:47:28,508
that that's pretty good donuts.

00:47:28,526 --> 00:47:31,235
Uh, donuts on the, on the, on, on the front court lawn there.

00:47:31,236 --> 00:47:34,007
So Petro, just throwing that in- introduction to, uh, to

00:47:34,013 --> 00:47:35,326
Bennett for you guys to connect.

00:47:35,660 --> 00:47:36,458
Hey, Bennett, how can…

00:47:36,529 --> 00:47:39,336
You know, if, if people wanted to connect with you, or learn, or,

00:47:39,336 --> 00:47:42,305
or learn more about the work that you're doing, uh, please take a

00:47:42,306 --> 00:47:46,012
moment to plug, share, or promote anything you're working on right now.

00:47:46,021 --> 00:47:51,317
Well, uh, you know, um, uh, what I really do, what has made me

00:47:51,317 --> 00:47:54,044
successful is actually not CTE.

00:47:55,089 --> 00:47:59,382
I'm one of the leading experts in the country in death investigation,

00:47:59,383 --> 00:48:02,653
in medical legal consulting- Yeah … and brain trauma.

00:48:03,124 --> 00:48:07,787
So I have a very successful, very, very successful practice in Sacramento.

00:48:08,031 --> 00:48:08,272
Mm.

00:48:08,321 --> 00:48:11,803
Um, our website is bennettomalu.com.

00:48:12,066 --> 00:48:12,366
Yeah.

00:48:12,394 --> 00:48:14,979
www.bennettomalu.com.

00:48:15,317 --> 00:48:17,701
We have a state-of-the-art tissue lab.

00:48:17,776 --> 00:48:19,981
We have a state-of-the-art autopsy lab.

00:48:19,995 --> 00:48:23,707
We get cases from all over the country, and sometimes from outside the country.

00:48:23,874 --> 00:48:24,131
Yeah.

00:48:24,182 --> 00:48:28,993
Um, so if you need to get a hold of me on any matter relating to brain trauma,

00:48:29,002 --> 00:48:34,894
CTE, death investigation, medical legal consulting, you could send me an email at,

00:48:34,933 --> 00:48:41,218
uh, info, I-N-F-O, info@bennettomalu.com.

00:48:41,653 --> 00:48:41,949
Yeah.

00:48:42,253 --> 00:48:44,211
info@bennettomalu.com.

00:48:44,269 --> 00:48:48,525
Just as my name's spelled, Bennett has double N, one T.

00:48:48,574 --> 00:48:50,972
Omalu, O-M-A-L-U.

00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,079
Bennett Omalu, all one word, no space, no dot.

00:48:54,366 --> 00:48:56,230
info@bennettomalu.com.

00:48:56,669 --> 00:48:57,124
You're awesome.

00:48:57,128 --> 00:48:57,656
Johnny?

00:48:58,656 --> 00:49:01,589
Well, before you go, brother, I just want to set the record straight.

00:49:02,734 --> 00:49:04,921
You're way better looking than Will Smith.

00:49:09,893 --> 00:49:10,632
I think so.

00:49:12,786 --> 00:49:16,232
Ah, Bennett, um, I'm so grateful.

00:49:16,339 --> 00:49:19,212
You know, I, I, we always look for the, you know, we're, we, we look for

00:49:19,213 --> 00:49:22,318
the world's most interesting people to tell their stories, and when I saw your

00:49:22,319 --> 00:49:26,083
name on the docket that was gonna be on our show, I was really excited on

00:49:26,083 --> 00:49:27,908
a personal level, professional level.

00:49:28,189 --> 00:49:28,292
Me too.

00:49:28,292 --> 00:49:31,315
I know I told, I know when I told Johnny you were showing up, I can say that.

00:49:31,519 --> 00:49:32,824
I'll just be honest, say it in front of Johnny.

00:49:32,826 --> 00:49:34,422
I know when I told Johnny there was probably this little tickle

00:49:34,423 --> 00:49:36,172
of, "Ooh, this is, this is…

00:49:36,243 --> 00:49:38,402
Uh, I don't know how to feel about this," 'cause Johnny's

00:49:38,406 --> 00:49:39,788
had some experiences- … right?

00:49:39,796 --> 00:49:42,444
So I mean- Well, you know what I love about it is, is that…

00:49:42,444 --> 00:49:46,133
'cause what I honestly from a selfish perspective- Yes … was looking to

00:49:46,135 --> 00:49:51,326
come out of this discussion today with some sort of direction or takeaway,

00:49:51,355 --> 00:49:55,693
and, and the fact- Yes … that you kind of explained the path of life and the

00:49:55,694 --> 00:50:00,730
relationships that are helpful to this, it really, I mean, 'cause it, for the most

00:50:00,732 --> 00:50:02,289
part I'm doing all of what you're saying.

00:50:02,290 --> 00:50:02,755
Yes.

00:50:02,769 --> 00:50:06,000
So now I have- Y- yeah … the confirmation that what I'm doing

00:50:06,054 --> 00:50:10,223
is the right thing from the world's leading expert, so I f- I feel very

00:50:10,223 --> 00:50:11,876
fulfilled from this conversation.

00:50:12,319 --> 00:50:14,072
Me, me, on your behalf, John, me too.

00:50:14,133 --> 00:50:15,616
I, I, 'cause I was the same feeling.

00:50:15,621 --> 00:50:18,266
I, I s- said to Jimmy and Neiman like, "Oh, my God.

00:50:18,266 --> 00:50:20,189
We're getting some good truth for Johnny, and we're getting it

00:50:20,189 --> 00:50:21,375
from the, the, the man, Johnny.

00:50:21,396 --> 00:50:21,871
The man."

00:50:21,924 --> 00:50:25,013
Like, this- Yeah … it's not like they said or that guy said.

00:50:25,076 --> 00:50:26,890
The man said this.

00:50:27,528 --> 00:50:28,965
Um- Yeah … you know?

00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:32,905
So- So now I, now I'm, I'm really inspired to lean deeper

00:50:32,921 --> 00:50:34,673
into the stuff that I'm doing.

00:50:34,949 --> 00:50:35,188
Yeah.

00:50:35,188 --> 00:50:37,387
But now I can lean deeper into some over…

00:50:37,397 --> 00:50:40,455
'Cause I'm, I do a lot of different things for this, but now I know that these

00:50:40,483 --> 00:50:42,128
things over here need more attention.

00:50:42,382 --> 00:50:43,061
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:43,061 --> 00:50:43,564
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:43,565 --> 00:50:47,213
But that, another thing I could advise you, okay, seek the help of a, you

00:50:47,213 --> 00:50:51,949
know, a neurologist or psychiatrist who does this type of work, who has

00:50:51,957 --> 00:50:56,483
experience in, uh, guiding people who've, who've been exposed to brain trauma.

00:50:56,775 --> 00:50:56,986
Yeah.

00:50:56,986 --> 00:50:57,249
Okay?

00:50:57,442 --> 00:51:00,701
But whatever you do, don't hit your kids on the head.

00:51:00,886 --> 00:51:04,543
Some people I was told when they're having sex, they hit each other on the head.

00:51:05,042 --> 00:51:05,990
You need to stop doing that.

00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:09,764
Oh, Bennett.

00:51:10,295 --> 00:51:14,180
We gotta get people having sex, never mind having them bang their heads, Bennett, so

00:51:18,603 --> 00:51:19,258
Oh.

00:51:19,633 --> 00:51:19,839
You're…

00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:20,881
Hey, Bennett, do you have kids?

00:51:21,704 --> 00:51:22,761
Yeah, I have two kids.

00:51:22,762 --> 00:51:25,647
My daughter, Ashley, is, uh, 19.

00:51:25,972 --> 00:51:27,070
She is in college.

00:51:27,099 --> 00:51:29,886
My son is, uh, 16, Mark.

00:51:30,186 --> 00:51:31,212
Mark and Ashley.

00:51:31,223 --> 00:51:32,593
Mark is in high school.

00:51:32,619 --> 00:51:36,535
Then my wife, people think I'm not married 'cause I don't wear a ring.

00:51:36,547 --> 00:51:36,804
Yeah.

00:51:36,809 --> 00:51:37,775
Nobody sees her.

00:51:38,043 --> 00:51:40,299
She's very reserved and introverted.

00:51:40,316 --> 00:51:41,423
Her name is Prima.

00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,151
Uh, she's half Indian, half, uh, Kenyan.

00:51:45,717 --> 00:51:45,945
Yeah.

00:51:45,946 --> 00:51:49,058
A very beautiful woman, but she likes to stay behind the scene.

00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:50,841
She doesn't want nobody to bother her.

00:51:51,725 --> 00:51:53,182
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,550
How, how proud are your kids of their dad?

00:51:55,651 --> 00:51:57,930
Or how pr- how proud is dad of their kids, his kids?

00:51:58,924 --> 00:51:59,151
They…

00:51:59,717 --> 00:52:01,182
My kids make fun of me.

00:52:01,580 --> 00:52:05,593
They say, "Daddy, you know, uh, Mike Webster saved your life."

00:52:05,959 --> 00:52:09,811
"Mike Webster, you have been this poor, hungry doctor by the street."

00:52:09,873 --> 00:52:10,988
calling her begging for money.

00:52:10,989 --> 00:52:11,380
Your kids

00:52:14,683 --> 00:52:16,298
just have a wicked sense of humor.

00:52:16,692 --> 00:52:17,884
Oh my God.

00:52:18,772 --> 00:52:22,425
Bennett Omalu, hanging out with Keith and Jon live on the big show we call Mornings

00:52:22,425 --> 00:52:23,595
in the Live with Keith, Jon, and friends.

00:52:23,595 --> 00:52:27,072
Bennett, uh, on behalf of me and the entire crew here, uh, thank you.

00:52:27,157 --> 00:52:29,051
Full of gratitude- Thank you … for your, for your time.

00:52:29,663 --> 00:52:29,901
Thank you.

00:52:29,901 --> 00:52:30,740
Appreciate you, brother.

00:52:30,751 --> 00:52:30,918
Love that.

00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:31,989
Thank you very much.