Andrew Sridhar: the conversation

Mornings in the Lab · Interview transcript

The worst thing someone ever called you can become the sentence you spend years trying to outgrow. You don't just move past it. You build around it. You build over it. Sometimes you build against it. For Andrew Shridhar, that sentence had a name, Fievel, the immigrant mouse. He was a half-Indian, half-Irish Catholic kid in Daytona Beach. That joke was meant to make him small. Today, he puts that story first, before the medal, before Harvard, before Amazon. That choice matters because every chapter carried the same question. Who gets to decide what his name means? At the Naval Academy, he almost left. Injury forced him to start over. Then class 244 happened. 220 men entered Hell Week. 30 made it through. Shri became the class leader. He served two combat deployments in Iraq and earned a Bronze Star with Combat V. After the military, he kept starting over in new rooms, Harvard, Wall Street, Amazon Alexa AI, and later Capital One and Wayfair. Behind all that performance, he's still a human being. He's divorced, a single dad of three, and open about ADHD and anxiety. Through the Warrior Poet, he now coaches leaders who perform under pressure without hiding what pressure costs. So today, we're not asking how impressive Shri is. We're asking who he became after the labels stopped working. Patient, please welcome Andrew to Mornings in the Lab. We're happy to have you here today. Honey, Shri was once called the bully kid called Fievel, and then he became a Naval Academy graduate talking about some ADHD. Oh, hold on, there's a [ __ ] squirrel over here. Hold on. Ah, that's my ADHD coming on. The Jimmy, let's Kyle, let's bring him up. Let's bring in Andrew Shri Shridhar. What's going on, Andrew? Hey guys, how are you? Good. How are you, buddy? Awesome to be here. I love the energy here. Dude, so I got to tell you, man. I Johnny, I'm suspecting right now as handsome as he is, I think he's actually a pretty smart [ __ ] I I I'm I'm just suspecting that somebody who does the Navy SEAL stuff and John, we've talked to a couple Navy SEAL dudes, ends up in Harvard and done some crazy stuff, I think he might be maybe a little more smarter than he is handsome. And Let's see if he can answer a question that that you had for everybody. That I I thought that I answered pretty well, but let's just let's see if our man cuz he's a he understands the military. So, Keith says the other day, you know, we got a green beret coming on the show. He goes, but they all get the green hats. How can you tell them apart? Do you have an answer for that? I I don't have an answer for that. >> I kind of didn't either. I was kind of like, are you [ __ ] kidding me? Yeah. No, they they they tend to look more similar than than us, I guess. Yeah. Andrew, where you joining us from today, brother? I'm in Washington, D.C. area. Of course you are. Of course you are. Dude, I'm excited to have you here today, man, because your story is pretty exceptional. Like you talk about going from here to here, like usually you got a guy who does Harvard, but you got a guy who's like Navy SEAL, the exceptional of the exceptional, and then makes his way through tour. First of all, thank you for that. And then you end up being a Harvard MBA. Like where do you want to start the journey, Andrew? How did you First of all, how did you end up in the Navy? Great question. So, my my dad's from India and my grandfather on my mom's side was World War II era, wanted to serve, but got disqualified, I think because of flat feet or something like that. >> Yeah. >> And so, he he volunteered in a Navy shipyard in New York City area so he could do something. But yeah, my like a lot of immigrants to the US, my dad was one of the patriotic most patriotic people you could find and was watching war movies and stuff like that like dads did back then and got inspired. My my best friend growing up on our cul-de-sac, his grandfather had had assaulted the beaches of Normandy in D-Day and he was talking about that. So, yeah, that was the beginning of my journey there. Yeah, how could you not be inspired if you're being raised by those stories? Yeah. Like how could you not be inspired by that anyways? Well, Keith, one thing you said Navy SEAL to what was it? Harvard? Forget it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Harvard. Well, my man will will confirm this up, but I'm guessing that you go through something like Navy SEAL training or any really brutal type of training, they've just given you the skill set to do whatever the [ __ ] you want in life. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, yes, and like like the improv people, you know, teach yes, and I think it's a little bit of a misnomer that they're teaching you grit and they're teaching you resilience. Like you definitely do hone those skills through that process, but at the same time >> finding the people that have it. Yes. >> You either have it or you don't. We're on camera. Yes. Yeah, it's it's the harshest filter that I think is known to man and they're finding the people who already have it. >> Cuz you put the three of us into that into that Buds training. Let's just do three of us for example. It's not so much discovering whether we are, it's discovering who has it. Yeah, exactly. Like they're not going to teach the three of us how to be resilient. It's okay, we're going to put the three of you guys there. Bill is is dropping out, Anderson is dropping out and there's still three standing. That's basically how it works, right? Yeah, I mean, well, you know, one one instructor put it this way in advanced training. He's like, "You guys know nothing. All all that we know about you is that you're trainable." Like after after 7 and 1/2 months of what some describe and I like to describe as getting kicked in the nuts every day all day for about 7 months. And and there's no there's no like people sitting in a class doing the breath work and meditation even though I I think those things are valuable. It's not skills building in that sense. It's just yeah, seeing who has it. Johnny. Well, I've had I've met many Navy SEALs over my life, right? And I've learned as I've met them going forward, you can pretty much tell the the ones that were actual SEALs versus the ones that claim it. Because the ones that claimed it, Mhm. their life's a [ __ ] mess. The ones that actually did it, they've [ __ ] orchestrated some pretty amazing lives. That I I That is true. I'm going I am going to pushing that a little bit though, John. Like we're Well, it's a it's a I mean, it's a very small sample, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. with the military. And I don't want to take away from that. At the same time, I think there's a little risk in making us seem like we're not human, like we're not normal people. And And the risk there is twofold, right? One is that there are guys who are are really suffering, who have been in special operations, have done best of the best sort of stuff. You know, I I I I can't count the number of of SEAL brothers, other military folks from the Naval Academy that I was close with who committed suicide, right? Yeah. You know, there's that. I want to shine a light on that. Yeah. But But also, right? If we're If we're superhuman and we've got these superpowers, like that's not as moti- motivating to everyone else, right? Like I was, you know, like in the intro, you know, I like I was a skinny, scrawny kid, you know, who who, you know, was bullied a little bit on my soccer team, called Five Hole, the the Disney character back in the day. Yeah. No, and like I just wanted a thing, and I I went and got it. And, you know, like I It sounds cheesy, but like everybody else can can do that, too. Well, you know, people say like we say superhuman. I think what it is is more of you've just been attached to what you're capable of. I love that. That's interesting, yeah. Hey, Johnny, can you imagine what you were doing at 28? I know I can. I wasn't making some good decisions in life. Well, get this. So, after Harvard, Andrew ends up at the Command Global Services co-leading a global operations. Dude, you're 28. We're talking 30 to 80 billions in diamonds, gold, and cash hitting around the world. Malta, Germany, the Middle East. You're 28 and you're deputy director, head of finance, and lead contract negotiator. Like, how do you, 28 years old, former Navy SEAL, even get that job? Well, I I'll talk I'll talk generally about kind of the this the stuff I've I've done post-military and I remember being in a session, I call them after-school specials at Harvard Business School. You know, and you go through your classes and it's great, but then people come, companies, and they try and court Harvard Business School, you know, people are going to graduate soon for internships or whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I remember I wanted to get into technology and entrepreneurial things and the Google folks come in and this lady, great presentation, they've got alums there who are coming back talking about working at at these great companies and, you know, there wasn't Anthropic or anything. Like, Google was the stuff back then. >> Yeah. Yes. And I go up, everyone's wait then then it's the queue of people waiting to talk to the person and kind of, you know, kiss their rear end a little bit and and make some small talk to see if they can be remembered. And it's finally my turn and I I ask about being a product manager, which is not the not the most technical thing you can do, right? It's not an engineer or data scientist something like that. And all she does is ask me if I have an engineering degree or not. Like, she doesn't care about any of my SEAL experience, all the other stuff I've done. It's just, do you have that or not? Well, no, actually, you know, you should work in this other department. Like, see you later and she's like, talk to the next person. And it was so dismissive that, you know, I learned like, hey, everything I've done is great, but it's what what have you done for me lately and I got to play the game everyone else is playing. So, it was just baby stepping my way to more and more technical and more and more complex things and just trying to get get the bonafides as I say. Andrew Stree Cedar joining myself and John Anderson this morning. Andrew, you say that psychological safety is overrated. You say that introverts are not natural leaders. You say prioritization frameworks are mostly useless. Andrew, those are three provocative statements. Yeah, I'll try and keep them straight. You can keep me on track. I have my own ADHD. Yeah, I might get distracted. >> psychological safety? What does that mean to you? So I I believe Amy Cuddy is the the researcher speaker responsible for for that body of work that concept and popularizing it and psychological safety means to me if you are on a team that you can express your views and not be worried about other people judging them or Yeah, judging them and getting down on you or or where or where you or your mental health and your career are not constantly in danger. Yes, okay. >> good and that's important, right? I'm not I'm not dismissing that. Okay. But if you go on social media in the leadership space Uh-huh. and and you were naive and you knew nothing about leadership you would very quickly think that like the key to building elite teams and doing awesome things is psychological safety. And and the the reason for that is like the internet at times can be really really negative but in other places can be toxically positive as I like to say and it's making people feel good. Those are the things a lot of times that go viral, right? And so psychological safety makes people feel good because we've all experienced, you know, bad experiences in the workplace. And so that's that's why I say it's vastly overrated. Like if you go to a pro sports team or you go to a SEAL team, like how often are they stressing psychological safety, right? Is that the real key to why those organizations are elite? Like that's it's laughable on its face. >> Oh, oh, but Andrew, so so we got to Dr. John Petzold jumping in here and you guys should meet actually. Dr. John's one of the world's greatest [ __ ] professors. He's one of the members of the lab here. He's out of he teaches out in the Carolinas. There Amy Edmondson, another Harvard professor, initiated the psychological safety research. Andrew, you made a statement there which is, you know, in dress rooms or in Navy SEAL teams it is is it maybe just implied? Is that just a trait of yours where your trait is you just know that like so I'll use the term safe space. Is that okay? I'm hanging out with Keith and John. They're going to give me a safe space. I can be how I want to be. I'm going to do how I'm going to be because I get a sense from these guys they operate in the same mindset as I do. So while we are not we are not implicitly speaking it, there's just some maybe some some assumptions that this is a safe space. Hence we operate effectively. No? Yeah. Well, thanks for correcting me by the way. It's Amy Edmondson not Amy Cuddy. So, sort of. Sort of, right? Like I I it's it's a great point you that and there there is a lot of that implicit hey, we're taking care of each other. I like Yeah, but you know Yeah. You know as a new guy SEAL get shown up to a SEAL team like, yeah, all these guys are going to be hard on me, but you know what? Like when we're in combat Like John's got your back. John If John's here, John's got your back. You just know it. So it's not Is it you though, Andrew? Yeah, so there's there's a shared language, but like I don't think new guys when they show up to a SEAL team are feeling psychological safety. Like it's it's pretty stressful. Like >> Yes. By design, Yes. >> you're the low of the low at that point. And so I think I think the issue is that psychological safety is necessary but not sufficient. It's like you're not going to become elite just through psychological safety and that's what I'm trying to shine a lens on is that like people have misplaced priorities in in what they think moves the needle. Johnny? When you when you say psychological, just let's define that so that word's not being mis- misread or misunderstood in this conversation. Yeah well >> Are you talking about just the one's feeling of wellness, no matter what the situation is? I I mean, to me that seems very plausible, right? Like, I didn't make up the term, so I don't want to I don't want to fight me and Ben Sasse. But, I think also >> we judge just it, I agree. But, then I just want to make sure my definition wasn't different than what you were using it your definition for this conversation. Sounds like we're on the same point. I think I think I'm with you. I do you point out something actually that bothered me about this as well, which I think the insertion of the term psychological is like both it's very it's sciency, right? Which gives it traction, and it's vague enough where it can mean whatever it's like a Rorschach painting of a concept, where it can mean to you whatever you want it to mean. Well, cuz my psychological safety then comes from the fact that and it was definitely learned, but I wasn't born with this. Came through development of myself. And it's basically no matter what no matter how hard I get hit, I number one, I'm going to be okay. Number two, I'm going to get I'll be better for that hard hit than if I what didn't have the hard hit. So, the hard is it's I don't want I mean, granted, the getting hit hard getting hit hard hurts, but I know that I'll turn that pain into something better than what I had before I started. That's where my psychological safety comes from completely completely within. So, whatever setting I'm in, hit me. Because it'll hurt, but I know I'll be better for it. Well, you know, Go ahead. Go ahead. No, Andrew, please, please. Yeah. I was just going to say I I think that's I think that's a great point John. I I think most people would call that resilience. And it's not that using the term psychological safety is wrong because that those are two words that go together and they mean what you're articulating, but in the context of leadership like frameworks and things like that, psychological safety is mostly used within the concept of what is the work environment like within which all these individuals are are operating. So, are we talking about surviving cuz resilient to me says surviving. I'll survive. Thriving says I'm going to get better. To me psychological safety doesn't to me doesn't [ __ ] I'll survive. That doesn't feel very safe to me. I'm going to thrive feels very safe to me. Yeah. I I mean I'm I'm aboard. I think more more >> and I'm not brother that's I'm not at all questioning what you're saying. I love what you said. Just kind of interesting to break it down so people truly understand the the conversation. Well, and Johnny our brother Petro jumps chimes in and says and I love it so it's great Andrew cuz Petro is always listening. He's always offering his nuggets of fact and truth and he says, "You know, psych safety is another concept hyped up like it's the end all be all similar to people who take more than excessive amounts of vitamins that they don't need." So, very much the same thing, right? It's like it's like setting up this space that maybe I'm interpreting as setting up a space that is not needed or it seems fake. It can you can you can go to excess. You could you could certainly go to excess, right? Speaking of excess, so you said that Richard Strozzi said you asked the coach and client if she deserved joy. And there was 30 seconds of dead silence. You coach people on execution and performance. But the question about joy isn't about performance, it's about worth. So, when you ask about that, do you deserve joy? Do we deserve joy, Andrew? Yeah. Every everyone deserves joy. It's another interesting one, too, brother. Break the joy up because joy and happiness are two very different things. Yeah, can go buy some happiness by buying my grandson an ice cream and I can buy that happiness for a moment. That's not joy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll take a step back and John, if I if I don't get to your point, then please bring me back. Number one, I tailor my executive coaching for founders and and other high ambitious folks to what they need. Sometimes that's purely work. Sometimes that's personal stuff and and what we do in the end for everybody is working a lot of internal stuff. Cuz that's that's where it starts, right? I can teach I can teach someone decision making. I can teach them negotiations. I can teach them business strategy. But you know what? Like if you can't be uncomfortable, if you procrastinate, if you're constantly resentful of other people, if you've got to be the smartest person in the room all the time, like those are those are all internal issues that we have to work through. And sometimes I like asking questions that seem obvious on their face, like do you deserve joy? But sometimes those those questions hit deeply. And for for that particular client, she had a she had a lot of trouble with that. She couldn't let herself enjoy the things that she even said that she enjoyed, right? Which is crazy, but that that affects a lot of people. Like happiness to joy, we can't we can't be happy all the time. We can't be joyful all the time. And I I've kind of had a mantra lately of don't be happy, be useful. It's based a little bit off of off of some things Alex Hormozi has said. Like like like him or hate him, he says a lot of wise stuff sometimes. [ __ ] yeah, dude. He's got a He's got a version of that where he was struggling a lot. Yeah, like happiness can can bleed into just transitory states, short-term things that are very dopamine heavy, a lot of things that my mental health professional Jeff Boss, fellow CEO, would call unproductive coping. And you know, meanwhile joy and and peace, to kind of use the the Christmas terms in a lot of songs, like like as you mature, I feel like we all realize we want more of that. Right? We want more equanimity. We want more calm in our minds, and to have have those, you know, and joy is like to me it's a feeling of euphoria. Yes. Where and it could it could come from different places, right? It can come from just an amazing bond with a romantic partner, making come from, you know, special time with your kids, or it can come from like building something cool. That's yours. >> no, I like it, brother. You know, I feel like for me personally, I I have to protect my joy because there are there's there's so much out there that that can literally get in the way. Like my own control of my own personal anxiety is one of those things that I have to keep a tab on or it will [ __ ] my joy up big time. Something I can enjoy, I can be like totally doing it and not enjoying it because I've got some [ __ ] unidentified anxiety that I can't [ __ ] figure out what it is. So, at that point I just got to stop and stop myself and realize, okay, look, you know, let's let's get the [ __ ] brain on the right track. Look at all of the [ __ ] that you are grateful and lucky and that you get I get my brain back on the right foot. Usually that anxiety is something that was [ __ ] Never even something I shouldn't even I didn't even know what it was in most cases, and but I guess what I'm getting at is if I don't protect my joy, I won't have it. Yeah. You know, so there's there are researchers found that they looked at a thousand people that were stressed out around America looking for joy. You know what they did? They did they surveyed 155,000 tracks. Linkin Park number one band that brings people more joy the last number of years to remove stress. True story. Yeah, just found a little fact here that Linkin Park is removing the for humans who were looking for joy, which I found quite fascinating. Andrew I'm curious, too. I'm very curious if they understand what joy really is, though. Well, yeah. Well, you can give me this. What do you think, brother? Yeah. >> Well, Go ahead. Yeah, we in the there's three main phases of buds. There's kind of a phase before the real stuff starts, but >> Buds like in cannabis buds or No, buds seal training. Bud Oh, so we're talking cannabis now. Sorry to interrupt you, buddy. Hey, that was my ADHD taking over there so. >> It's all good. I basic underwater demolition seal training is what it was called. So, so yeah, in seal training, second phase, our our one of our main instructors, he listened to that What was it? Meteora? That like big Indian album? All the time. So, so many of our workouts on the beach were listening to that album front to back over and over and over again. Keith Shawn and Shree hanging out this morning on Morning to the Wild with Keith Shawn and friends. Shree, I want to be respectful of your time. I had you for 30. We are going to talk a little bit about divorce in the top of the second hour. Are you Are you on Are you able to stick around or do you got to rock and roll out of here? I do have to rock and roll, but I will tell you guys it was it was a blast being here, and I would love to come back if you would have me. I can talk about divorce. I've got all sorts of thoughts. We'd love to have you back on that show. >> Yeah, bro. I love I mean, it's the conversation is [ __ ] really good, brother. Yeah. Well, cuz it is it Johnny, you know, and just so it doesn't sound so loud instead of behind your back, I I I'm always searching for interesting humans. I'm looking for interesting humans on the planet. You are an interesting human. Just say that out loud. I'm not going to like So, Johnny, like a Navy SEAL guy, hunting Moammar Gaddafi's stuff, Amazon guy, AI guy, ADHD, divorce, three kids. Like you got you got you got a dossier, my friend. And I mean that as a compliment. Like you're not just uh Like you got you you've accomplished [ __ ] in your life. And you know, I got to say one thing that I'm really I'm just actually curious about, and I know you got to rock and roll, but Yeah. So, an Indian fella in America joins the military, ends up in the Middle East. I have to think take this for how you want to take it. I'm paid to ask the tough questions. I have to think your physical appearance is not being like the white guy worked to an advantage for you. Yeah, so on in Iraq on on my a couple deployments in Iraq, we had the same interpreter each time. Yes. And he's got a book. Johnny Walker was his alias. Okay. Um crazy story with him, but all of the Iraqi army folks that we were working with, they all thought I was Johnny's cousin. So she when I when I grew some facial hair out, she was always happy. So yeah, we're it worked a little bit. I learned some Arabic and hopefully earned a little trust I bet. I bet. I bet. And for all we know Johnny, he's an intelligence operative here in North America today. Andrew Street Sodar. Otherwise known as Five-O. All kidding aside, brother, I've I've surely enjoyed you here today, man. A great conversation with you. Thanks for hanging out. Yeah, I appreciate it, guys. This was this was a blast, truly. You guys are also very interesting people and I I need that. I get bored easily with with with some people and and not you guys by any means. Oh no, we're not boring. No, definitely not boring. No, not to Johnny. You didn't even You didn't even hear about the [ __ ] farm work he threw out. Oh, oh Johnny's teasing Andrew to come back. Yes, I agree. And and Andrew meet meet to John Pet Jelly John Pet Jelly. And Andrew says, I'd like to hear more from Andrew Sodar. Very interesting. I agree. Andrew, official invite to come back for round two, okay? Love it. I'm in. Let me know. All right, Andrew's Andrew's out of here. Thank you, brother. Beautiful, beautiful.