Larry Hagner: the conversation

Mornings in the Lab · Interview transcript

Nobody at the Monday meeting asks the real question. How's your marriage actually going? You're closing deals, getting promoted, building something, and the person across the dinner table stopped reaching for you. There's a name for it, sad clown syndrome, winning everywhere except the place that actually matters. Larry has spent 11 years on that problem. Larry's biological father left before he could walk, 9 months old, gone. At 12, the man came back, said I've started over, then vanished again. Straight F's followed. At 30, he walked into a Starbucks in St. Louis. His biological father was sitting there. A long, hard reconciliation followed. One night, Larry lost his temper at home. His 3-year-old son put his hands up to protect himself. He didn't see his son. That's where the cycle almost won. He built the Dad Edge, then left his high-pressure job for good, because your kids don't wait for you to figure it out. If you've ever felt guilt as a dad, this is the conversation for you. Larry, welcome to the big show. We're happy to have this chat with you today. Hey, Johnny, get this, man. You're 30 years old. You walk into a Starbucks in St. Louis, and sitting there is the man who abandoned you at 9 months old. The same man who told the 12-year-old boy, "I've started over." What do you do? Do you say, "Fuck you?" Do you walk out? What do you do? What do you say? Because most people either punch or leave. The guy coming up right now did something much harder. Nation, meet Larry Hagner. What's up, Larry? What is going on, That is about the sickest commercial I think I've ever seen. Holy cow. Hey, Grant, Sophia got paid this week, so Sophia's in some new gear. It's uh making her >> Sophia looks like she just got [ __ ] brought off a god damn Amish farm. We need to put her in some [ __ ] better gear. Jesus Christ. Who the [ __ ] is dressing her? Larry, where are you joining us from? Are you in St. Louis, Larry? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. What's up, gents? Welcome to the show. Welcome to the big show. Glad to have you here. Dude, I got to be honest, I'm a little bit nervous having the conversation because you drop some stuff, man. Man, you got you you you've you're you're I got to think your story's going to be relatable to a lot of dudes. Where do you want to start with it? Man, I'll start Yeah, we can start right there if you want. >> So, actually, before we do that, you heard Keith and Johnny talking about anger and anxious and time. I saw you nodding there, family, and dads, and so forth. Any relatability there about about those things we were talking before we brought you in? Man, anger and time? Yeah. Yes. >> Yeah. So, I think, you know, it's when when it comes to men, right? I mean, I think it's safe to say, man, I I'm in this camp, too. I think one of the most most reoccurring motion emotions that we feel as men is anger. But, you know, here here's the truth about anger, man. Yeah. And I didn't say Anchorman. I said anger man. It's good. Well, But, we're fine. I'm Yeah. Here's the truth, you know, you know, anger is a is a secondary emotion. You know, so we always feel something first, whether it's fear, whether it's sadness, whether it's overwhelm, stressed out, whatever that is, and that usually shows up as anger. So, like, a lot of people I think think that a lot of men out there are very angry people, right? Very angry human beings. But, if you really peel back that onion layer, it's it's usually not anger that's that first culprit. It's it's it's really all about, you know, what am I feeling before I get angry. So, I want to give that understanding out there first. >> Bunch of other ones, yeah. Although, I got to say, brother, I'm going to have to categorize myself as not most men, and I'm going to contribute this to my my father who is my my non-blood dad, and he would literally when we met when I was like seven. And he said to me, he said, "Laddy," he said, "I'm I mean, I only met him once. The second time I met him, he was basically talking about being my stepdad." And anyway, he said, "Look," he goes, "I just want you to understand. You're going to see me mad about as many thumbs as you have on your hands." And I was like, "Two?" And he's like, "Maybe." And I I never I I can't remember he died when I was 21. I never We're talking 14 years. Never saw him mad. That's crazy, man. And it was really hard. I mean, it it's it is so difficult to get me mad. I mean, and at my age now, I I don't give anybody the power to make me mad. But Larry, how about the awareness of John's stepfather in that moment, right? Like and we're talking like we're not talking I'm suspecting Johnny we're not talking about a man in in the in 2026 with some emotional awareness. We're talking back in the 60s, 70s, Larry. And he says to his 60s, I wasn't even born yet, weirdo. Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah, SO YEAH, SO WE'RE TALKING about a man who's talking to his stepson and and having that awareness. That that's pretty fascinating, Larry, is it not? I want to I mean, I John, I'm so sorry your your your your stepdad, you know, obviously dad but not blood related dad passed away at such a young age. But man, I want to I would love to hang out with that guy. You know, man, I've I've been doing this mission He had graduated MIT in 3 years. He's a chemical engineer, created his own chemical plant. He sold he's a you know, he ended up selling it unfortunately right before he got cancer. But yeah, he was a he was a huge piece of who I am for sure because it's like the my my dad, my blood dad who made me, he was I got that just [ __ ] diving headfirst from him, right? And the the the flip side of have the okay, diving headfirst, you could really [ __ ] up, but you're not going to you're you're not going to display this [ __ ] up with anger. You're going to stay calm. And it's pretty [ __ ] interesting mix that I got, you know. Yeah, man. I I can only imagine. And I do have a question about the chemical plant. Can I ask a question about that? Okay, so I've seen the Incredible Hulk and I'm looking at you. And I'm I'm wondering did he throw you in like one of those one of those, you know, things that he went into and then all of a sudden like John came out just like bam. Funny enough, he he did not understand my my love for lifting weights. Cuz he was he was so, you know, like book oriented. You know, he he spent his time the time that I spent in the gym as a young boy, he spent time reading type stuff, you know. But he was so patient with you, John. He was so and you talked with his patience with you, right? You've talked about the way he treated with you. Well, I think it would have even more so. He was like, you know, when you're a kid, you're like, well, what happens if what why don't we just take all the money and split it up so everybody doesn't have to go have a job? And he'd say, okay, well, that's a good question, but what happens if one guy that gets his share of the money decides he doesn't want to do what he needs to do to hold up his end of the bargain. So, he would just, you know, he wouldn't just a normal Oh, that wouldn't work, you know, kind of dust you off. He would take he would take me with his silly little questions as a kid and present a question back to me to get me thinking. You know, so he was really he was he was he was a wise dude, for sure. Yeah. It's awesome man. >> John Keith and Larry this morning on Mornings with the Larry with Keith John and friends. Hey Larry, take take us to that moment. You're with your 3-year-old son. You lose your temper. Your son puts his hands up. When I read that, man, I just I I got to be honest, I clenched because I I've been there. I I've been I've been the person on both sides of that situation. I'll be I'm being vulnerable with you right now. And your son put his hands up and not to hit back, but to protect himself. Ish. What happened in your body in that second? Because that moment, Larry, that's not just a parenting story. That's the origin story of everything you have built, which frankly brought you on this show today. Talk about that moment. Yeah, man. Worst moment probably I've ever had as a dad. >> I can relate, brother. I thank you for sharing that. I I relate. I'm with you there. Yeah, definitely worst time I've ever had as a dad and I'll tell you you know when I first got married you know not not only I mean you guys heard about my my own biological father. Yeah. And but there there were several you know my mom was married a total three times and there were several men in between you know in between there and every guy was the same guy just a heavy drinker just an abuser just just heavy hands heavy with what they would say emotionally so like when I first got married man I was like you know what I'm going to make myself three promises number one I'm going to be a good husband. Number two I'm going to be a good dad and number three I'm never going to hit my kids out of anger cuz I was hit a lot and then what happened was on that horrible night my son was actually four at the time is we were getting ready to move and I was I was packing up his playroom and I was in a horrible head space I was in sales at the time I lost my biggest customer that day which was going to impact our income by about 40% thought I was going to lose my job my wife was a stay-at-home mom my head was a mess. Packing up all of his stuff stressed out about moving three hours of work my son comes down four years old and I look at him and I said hey buddy I said do me a favor dad just worked three hours to pack all this up I was like please don't get any toys out of the boxes and here's some toys right here that you can play with and I'll be back in 30 minutes dad is just going to take a break and you know what I look back on that now and I'm like what in the world was I even thinking like that's like somebody's starving and going >> Telling an alcoholic not to have a drink when it's the drink when the [ __ ] bottle's on the table. Exactly so it's like yeah it's exactly like that you know I always say it's like going to a buffet and you've been fasting for 21 days be like look at the food but don't eat it you know. And so I come down and what do you think happens he got out tons of toys made a huge mess and I like just turned him around and I just reacted and I swatted him on the butt and I spanked him and as soon as I did that I was like oh and then he here's the thing man here's the dark part he he fell and I was like oh my god like what did I just do?" And he he fell like face first. He didn't hurt himself when he fell. He just kind of tumbled over. But then he like rolled over on his back and I like went to go pick him up. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry." And he literally just went like this. Like, "Please don't like the look on his face was just fear." And I was like, "What in the world did I just do?" And I pick him up and I'm holding him. He's crying. You know, I I bring him upstairs, put him to bed. And I And that was it, man. That was the line in the sand for me. I was like, "No more. No more. I cannot do this this way." And I started thinking about every single thing in my life that I was somewhat good at. At the time I you know, I was in fitness, martial arts. I was I was pretty good at my sales job. And I started looking at those things and I was like, "What's the common denominator? Why am I pretty good at these things, but I suck at this?" And it's because I hadn't learned anything. And I hadn't invested any time, any resources, no reading of any books, no nothing about being a parent, being a husband. And I was like, "What if I just learn something every day?" And when I first started Dad Edge, and I'll finish with this, never did this for a following. Never did this for like clicks or anything like that. I'm I'm talking like this was 2012. So this is like a long time ago. Yeah. I just started a Facebook page and I was just like, "I'm just going to learn something new every day and I'm just going to post it here for my own record. Not for clicks, not for anything, just for me." And that page grew to 120,000 people. And I was like, "Why are these people following me? Like I'm an idiot. I'm a [ __ ] I'm like I'm putting all my stuff out here and like all these mistakes I'm making. And but these people were just like really really engaging in it. But that was that was the catalyst, man. Good for you, Larry. Dude, that's so So so I I I I'll share with both you. I I had a similar moment. I I remember like it was [ __ ] yesterday, Larry. We were in the garage. Carter was coming out of the house and he's hearing a lifting. And he was running late, Johnny. He's running late. Trying to get him to school and I was on the bottom of the stairs. I remember like it was He was on the top of the stairs and Larry Johnny, I just [ __ ] freaked out. I just blew a fuse, freaked out, got He was crying, upset and and I was about to [ __ ] smack him on the ass, Larry. I drove him to school that day. That rest of the day, I wouldn't [ __ ] look to my own mirror and I said to myself, "What the [ __ ] are you doing, man?" And I never did That never happened again. Ever. Because I did not like my behavior. I did not like my moment and I did not like the look on his face and the tears in his eyes when I when he was like like almost like saying to me, "What the [ __ ] you doing?" And I I I So, Larry, when you told that story, I can really completely relate to that. Well, as as I kind of join in the sharing so what I've what I cuz I've actually We've all had these moments. >> Yes. Yeah. [ __ ] if you if you say as a parent there's not a moment you wish you can't take back. Some are going to be bigger than others, for sure. But, my middle daughter, man, she was a I've done it to all of them, but I mean my middle daughter was was the most friction. She was just just just like me and there's Anyway, so long story there's a there was a few times where I just [ __ ] acted out of character, you know, and and it was triggered by something that she did, but something that should not have triggered me that way and I was like way too hard on her. And and it wasn't like I was, you know, anyway, it was way out of character. So, I went back to her and I said, "Hey, kiddo." And I didn't person. I said, "Do you remember this time?" And the first one I talked about, she was probably I don't know, 10. And I described it. We were here, we were in our gym, this happened. And on the way home, once we got in in private, you know, I just, you know, kind of let you have it on what was going on. And I just got to say, whether you remember this or not, I said I I I'm really sorry. You didn't deserve that." And she goes, "Daddy." She goes, "It's okay. I don't remember." Yeah. It must not have been as bad as you thought, but it and it was it was it was obviously for her, but it was for me, too. It was [ __ ] cleansing cuz I needed to let that [ __ ] I had been harboring how I behaved in that moment for [ __ ] years. It was like, "God damn it, I need to get this out." More importantly, I need her to know that I recognize that that was not the dad that she knows and I I needed to apologize. It was really [ __ ] pretty empowering. And then and I did There was probably three or four of those that I did over the course of probably a year or so. It's interesting what you said, Johnny, cuz I haven't I haven't had that conversation with Carter and I feel like I need to. Even for myself, I suspect he's not going to remember. Probably not, but it's it's for you and what When she said she didn't remember, I was like, "Fucking Inside I'm thinking, 'Thank you, >> Yeah. So, then, Larry, your son, have you had that conversation with your son? Oh, man, many times. And if I showed you a picture of him right now, he's like he's 18 now and he's like a freaking specimen. He was the He's like, "Dad, do you remember when you were You're lucky I didn't kick your ass right now." Oh, dude, yeah, no kidding. Like it it's funny, man, because like he he's the center for his varsity football team. He's been on on the offensive line for for 10 years or all through high school, but But yeah, we talk very openly about it. Like he's attended I mean, I've spoken on stage several times. This is the story that I always tell. At least four or five times he has been in the audience and he has heard this over and over again. Yeah. We've even talked about it on the podcast. We talk about it very very openly. And it's funny, man. He's like, "Dad." And it's kind of the same thing. He's like, "I don't remember it and I forgive you." And you know, nothing like that has ever happened since. Yeah. But yeah, we talk very openly about it, very authentically about it. We don't hide it at all. That's beautiful. Yeah, man. Married? Oh, yeah, man. Married to my college sweetheart. We've been married for 23 years this year. We've been together for 30 years. Wow, 30 years married, Johnny, Four kids, Four boys, right? How old are you, brother? Put that in context. >> Yeah, I know. I was going to cuz when you said 18-year-old Johnny, I was like, "What the [ __ ] you 20? Like, what do you have a kid when you were two?" Like, you look about 30. How How old do you think I am? You look about 35, 38. I appreciate that, man. I'll be 51 in 3 months. What? No, you got to Hold on, you got a full head of hair under that hat, too. I got a full head of hair. Hold the horses here, Kai. Hold the horses. You Johnny, something's going on here. You're You're 51? I'll be 51 in July. Dude, you got good lighting like me and Anderson. I So, we're both 54, man. Welcome to the club. [ __ ] I honestly thought when you said you had an 18-year-old son, I'm like, "How the [ __ ] old is this guy?" I thought you were about 38, seriously. Oh, man, I love you. I love you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I would not I would have been in the wrong I would have been not even in the not even close to 50s. I would have been I would have been in the 40s, most likely early 40s. You know, I I would have been I could have even gone to the late 30s, for sure. Hold on, hold on, Johnny. I can't see his head. It's big. It's growing. Hagner, your head's growing right now, man. You got to I just want to hug you guys. Well, see, I thought for sure like we have this other guest on this he joins on Friday. He's a He's a truly a doctor, a professor, I should say. As a [ __ ] professor who I can't remember what college he teaches at. He comes on and he says that his age and we were kind of surprised and I'm like and he had a hat on for Yes. Take the hat off cuz usually there's then the hat will reveal, but rather the hat trick didn't work with you. Well, yeah, Petro's in the comments. He goes, Petro pulled his hat off and I was like, "Okay, I see it now." Well, I mean, seriously, I think maybe he looks like 35.5. It's funny how Anderson Petro picks half because he's not going to go to 40. Yeah, Petro thinks he looks 35.5. I love it. I actually love it. He So, you got You got four boys. You must look at your boys and as a dad I'm I'm I'm going to make some I'm going to suspect look at your dad your boys with pride knowing that you set them up hopefully on a better path than you have been on. You shared with your experience being raised by different fathers and perhaps a tumultuous life life growing up. I'm suspecting your boys have a pretty solid foundation. As a dad you must look at them with pride. I really do and you know there there's a lot of play at that man. I You know I I'm a pretty humble dude. You know I always feel like I can't take credit for that because I always say man your dad not only screwed up so many times he screws up every single day but yeah I've got a 20 year old 18 year old 12 year old 10 year old and I'll tell you like I'm looking at my young men my two my two older boys and they're just really really freaking good human beings man. Like my my 20 year old is just so so empathetic so amazing. He's he's going into firefighting. Yeah. And he is built for that. He is he meets people where they're where they're at but he's so calm in chaos which is unbelievable to me. Yeah. My 18 year old like I said he he looks like a special forces like he could kill you and he he would if he got pissed off enough but he he is like the most loving most loyal just just incredible human being. He's had the same girlfriend now for four years and just an unbelievable and I tell these kids all the time I was like you men are so much further along and so much better than I was back then and who I am even today. Like I learn from you guys. Now and that that is the Oscar truth. Yeah. Yeah. Hey Johnny you You got to fully you got to give yourself some credit because there's no question there's nature and there's nurture but what you're describing is nurture. Yeah. Yeah. Hey Larry we had you for 30. Do you got to rock and roll do you want to stick around for lunch with myself and Johnny? I can stick around for a little bit if you want. I'd love that. >> good. Absolutely yeah. So I cuz I got so John when we come back we'll get into this one. Larry John always talks never let a good tragedy you know good try never let a tragedy what's the Johnny what You're really good at butchering these [ __ ] really smooth statements. Please, go ahead. Never Never let a good tragedy go to waste. Well, the tragedy for Larry was unfortunately the way you were raised when you think about it. And you had a moment, dude, where you're like, "I'm not letting this [ __ ] happen ever again." And when I hear you talk about your boys, and maybe you don't realize this as we reset hour two, but when you talk about your boys, it goes back to that moment where you said, "I got to [ __ ] learn how to be a dad." Like you think about that. Had you not made that decision, I need to learn how to be a dad. And Keith and John talk about all the time. We're not taught when we're raised how to be dad or how to pick our partners. The two biggest decisions in life are not raised to how to learn that. And you had a moment where you're like, "I got to [ __ ] figure this out." Now, listen to you talk about your boys today, Larry, seriously. Thank you, man. You know, I I First of all, I want to comment on that. Never let a good tragedy go to waste. I I've never heard that, John, but I got to tell you, man, that is something that I think every single person in your audience needs to hear because I think >> yeah, brother. A lot of times, man, you know, we you know, we we let a tragedy just decimate us, right? But man, there's always always always learning in in in the storm, you know? And And it's if we can take some of those lessons and learn and just pivot, man, that's that's what life's all about, man. Well, you know, in a in a lot of times this stuff we to to a certain extent we bring ourselves. When I say that, I mean we we all want more. We want this. We want all that. We We want these this better life. Well, what you're asking for is life to [ __ ] kick you in the nuts because life's not going to get easier. You got to get better. So, life's going to put the obstacle in front of you. If you can overcome that obstacle, you become a better version of yourself, which means that's life That's how life gets easier. Life didn't change. You got better. And if people can reverse the table and see when when you're asking for more, brace yourself cuz here comes the [ __ ] Oh, yeah. Big time, man.